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Friday, June 17, 2005

Abortion I

Another issue plaguing mankind since time immemorial is none other than ABORTION



We all know that all the existing religions simply will say NO to abortion. No question, no debate and no compromise.

I personally certainly do not condone anything that deny life but hey, look at it this way, abortion is a NECESSARY EVIL, unwanted pregnancy is not only a personal problem and it is also a very real problem for the society at large.

I therefore raised this question with God and He has advised that abortion is a Circumstantial Issue ie. there is no absolute right or wrong, however, I didn’t manage to get God to elaborate at length as our divine session was approaching the end then.



As it is now, I imagine God advised that abortion shouldn’t be dealt with literally as if it is an act of murder as some quarters would like to portray. It is a complex issue whereby all circumstantial factors must be taken into consideration before one conclude if it is a right or a wrong thing to do.

While I definitely will seek further clarifications from God pertaining to abortion in the near future, I would appreciate it if you could come forward with your views and thoughts.

Lets debate on say an unwanted pregnancy for a school-going-teenage girl (hypothetically let say she is 15 years old). Do you think it is right to burden her with a new life when she is yet to have any economic mean to sustain herself, let alone another person and obviously, most girls of her age are not mentally ready for a family life. Furthermore, is it fair to rob her of her career, aspiration, dream etc., in the name of preserving a life that is yet to be a life (I personally don't consider a life is a life ... if a life is yet to be finished or fully formed)?

Again, please be rest assured that God is more liberal and democratic than you think, blasphemy is therefore never an issue here, so please do come forward with an open mind.

God bless.

60 Comments:

Blogger Friar Tuck said...

I am more conservative on you and think that abortion is wrong.

But lets you and I work out a compromise. Let us say that abortions should be legal in the first trimester (before there is a heartbeat), and illegal thereafter.

1:41 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

Hello Don Juan de Bubba,

"Let us say that abortions should be legal in the first trimester (before there is a heartbeat), and illegal thereafter"
A rational proposal but what about those who are really not in position to have a child (economically and socially), will you consider exception under such cirscumstances?

Anyway, thanks for commenting.

2:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello.

Condoms are not against the religion of Islam, "Muslims" don't "regard" the invention as "against God's will," as you claim nor do we view contraception as "evil" as you claimed in your multiple spams to my blog. Let Muslims speak for ourselves, Hmmm? -- UZ

2:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First let me say you walk on dangerous ground. Life is GOD given. No question no arguement no debate. Abortion goes against the Word of God.

I suggest you read Matthew 7:15-23

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

3:27 PM  
Blogger Jillian said...

Next time you talk with GOD, tell him I said hi!!!!!!!

3:38 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

Alright, Jill.

3:39 PM  
Blogger Ernesto Thaureaux said...

Soy Latino... Totalmente en contra del Aborto...
Porfavor... dile a Dios que lo Amo

3:41 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

Thanks Anonymous who wanted us to read Matthew 7:15-23

“First let me say you walk on dangerous ground”
What so dangerous? Strike by lightning?

“Life is GOD given. No question no arguement no debate. Abortion goes against the Word of God.”
That’s not what I heard from God (maybe your God and my God is not the same being). God told me “LIFE IS CIRCUMSTANTIAL” and that we should question, debate and evolve …

So what is the solution to the social problems created by unwanted pregnancy according to your interpretation on Matthew 7:15-23?

3:47 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

Hellooo UZ,

"Condoms are not against the religion of Islam, "Muslims" don't "regard" the invention as "against God's will," nor do we view contraception as "evil" as you claimed in your spam"
Are you sure?

Are saying abortion is okay in Islam? Kindly take a look at the some of the stuffs from my Googling based on "condom islam" ...

Pope Benedict Against Condoms in Africa
HIV spreads under Bush Africa policy
Malaysia HIV under fire
Does God Say No Sex?
How To Prevent Spraed Of HIV - Selangor Govt Style

and please revert back to us as to why did the religious 'officers' condemned the use of condom (leave abortion aside first)?

BTW, who do you mean by "Let Muslims speak for ourselves"?
Do you mean Muslims are NOT willing to share their views and or knowledge with the rest of the world? God can't possibly have passed down such a narrow instruction ... Appreciate any explanation you may offer.

In the name of God the most merciful, please also try to refrain from using crude word like spam. What I did was information dissemination, you are not in my subsription list, so you will most probably never heard from me again ... unless you ask for it.

5:10 PM  
Blogger THWP said...

You are a crazy person.

5:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

La Bona, I'm sure some people would oppose all abortions, period. But there surely isn't any harm in reasoning out the proposition.

Those who're offended when Muslims called them "infidels" haven't heard the word "heathens" pronounced on them by some American Christians (the epithets mean quite the same thing). And many here don't know how some in the American religious right have attempted to outlaw abortion even in rape cases, or how they obstruct the use of condoms claiming that they encourage promiscuity among the young, and so on and so forth. The religious right even try to rewrite US history, claiming that the early Founding Fathers were Christians, when most of them were Deists. And yes, there were Christian leaders who claimed that America was fighting for Christ when the superpower was dropping napalm on thousands upon thousands of innocent children, women, and men in Vietnam. And until today the Right still refuses to say that the Vietnam War was immoral.

Today, the Christian Right is trying to marginalize the theory of evolution, insisting that the schools teach "creationism."
I can go on with a lot of things that are taking place at state level, but it's better that those interested find out themselves through the internet, books, etc.

L Chuah

7:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All religions are man-made and therefore are flawed. It doesn't matter what all exiting religions say. It only matters what the woman, whose body is about to produce life thinks.

Now many people would argue -- if the child is aborted, you may be destroying the next Einstein -- or perhaps the next Hitler. The truth is, the kid is most likely going to be just another smuck, like the rest of us.

Forget about the abortion debate -- it's passe. we need to focus our efforts on expanding cloning capabilities. With a clone, you know what you're going to get!

7:14 PM  
Blogger ConservativeValues said...

I truly hope you get the help you need. God did not create abortion. MAN created abortion to enhance its desires to be "God-like" - Life is life - killing is killing

7:24 PM  
Blogger CONTRO said...

I have no opinion on abortion, but I'm pro-CONTRO.

Read about CONTRO at http://contro.blogspot.com

7:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i hate babies. that's why i do it in the butt.

7:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And God said, "f#$% the poor. Let them go forth and produce offspring so those of us with PC's and high-speed internet can take advantage of them." Revolutions 35000.

7:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the King James Version reads:
“Look to the weak and down-trodden, for the fruit of their loins shall benefit those who can afford broadband ."

7:56 PM  
Blogger strunny said...

le bona! thanks for calling my attention to your blog and this issue. :)
let me first say that i imagine God loves this kind of free debate, talk, sharing of ideas and our perceptions of him. he gave us minds to think with and question and push and pull our minds around. it's only healthy i think, to really see what we each believe and deepen our relationship with him.
i agree with a few people here, in that i think life is a God-given thing and however it comes about, it should not be taken. i used to think differently on it (when i didn't have a relationship with God), but over time i changed my mind. i think even with circumstances (time, money, fairness in how the child came to be) will be what they are, but God is bigger than all of it and that life wouldn't have come about if He didn't want it to.
i had good friend get pregnant recently (her family is catholic and she's not married, there was a fair amount of guilt-heaping happening...) and she kept him. he is the most awesome little boy (there's a picture on my blog, but it's not very good). background on her: she's been very ill with all sorts of problems for the last 7 years or so (wasn't expected to live 5 years ago) and it was supposed to be medically impossible for her to become pregnant. yet there she was, pregnant. i think of how Jesus talked about welcoming little children and widows and sinners and partiers and outcasts...God's amazing qualities are his mercy, forgiveness, and grace - and only Jesus will judge us all, in the end.
bye!
s

8:49 PM  
Anonymous LWS said...

I am Pro-LIFE

9:37 PM  
Blogger Raka said...

I'm Hindu so I have a rather twisted view of abortion. I believe that in some sense abortion can be wrong since the soul being reborn is being stopped short in it's dharmic cycle, but then on the other hand you are doing the person a favor since humans are the only animals able to accumulate bad karma (animals can only pay it off) and for all you know, if maybe be your dharma to kill said person, so as you can see, due to religious complexities I have no religously supported views on abortions.

However I do have economic and social reason to support it. Most people who seek abortion happen to fall in lower income brackets and while this may sound harsh, most of them are unable to give their children a good life and their grown children will probably not add much to society aside from having more children in the same situation as themselves. If people can put dogs and cats, whom they have adopted into their family as pets, to sleep, or if family members can pull the plug on comatose patients, why shouldn't a woman be able to end the life of something that has yet to even begin it's?

11:11 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

Raka,

Appreciated your comment and I must admit, this is the first time I ever come across an opinion coming from a Hindu perspective; the dharmic elements and karma factor are certainly an eye opener for me, indeed refreshing, so to speak.

Glad to see you do share my view that if there are economic and social reasons, the society at large should facilitate the abortion.

One curiosity here: Why does Hinduism say “humans are the only animals able to accumulate bad karma (animals can only pay it off)”? You meant human can never have good karma? First and foremost, I thought ‘karma’ means ‘fate’ or ‘destiny’, no?

11:29 PM  
Blogger carlos said...

i'm sick of watching little you and me being judges of what's better or worse.
life is.
even when it's an interruption.

12:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe you should have offered to buy God lunch. Maybe she would elaborate over a burger and coke.

12:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's true. I took God for Starbucks and nigga hooked me up with some lottery numbers!

12:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

wow. I agree with the one who said that abortion goes against the Word of God. It's true that the god you're talkin to is not the God that I know. The God of the Bible. That God, the one and only true God, is against abortion, murder, always! No exceptions. If the 15yr. old is in school and can't handle a baby, then she can give the baby up for adoption. But, that is a consequence for her sin. Or, if she's married at 15....well then it's what happens when you're married, you have kids.

12:45 AM  
Blogger Cormack McKinney said...

Just wanted to say a couple things:
La Bona
.Not all religions say NO to abortion. There are many around the world that don't, and some even offer babies as sacrifices.
(I watch National Geographic alot lol)
.You said you don't consider a life a life if it is yet to be finished. Does this mean if a young man is shot and killed, his wasn't a life because it was yet to be finished? Who determines when a life is "finished"?

Anonymous
.I think you took Matthew 7:15-23 out of context, but I agree with what you said. Abortion is wrong. (Though prior to reading these I thought it was a little circumstantial as well.) God created life.
God did not create abortion, man did.

God did not create condoms either. :P

4:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This makes me so angry. Only a psycho would suggest aborting a baby as a form of contraception.

I don't know why I even bothered to respond to such a sick notion.

That's the problem with blogs. It gives idiots like you a podium.

Go get a brain and learn to think before you decide to speak, or write, or whatever.

6:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

PA-CONSERVATIVE wrote:
…God did not create abortion. MAN created abortion to enhance its desires to be "God-like"

Are you sure? Doesn’t a miscarriage abort the potential child? God causes miscarriages.

7:24 AM  
Blogger La Bona said...

“If the 15yr. old is in school and can't handle a baby, then she can give the baby up for adoption”

In the first place, why don’t we just stop a problem before it becomes a bigger problem? Don’t you think prevention is better than cure?

+++++

Cormack McKinney “Not all religions say NO to abortion”

Please tell us which one condones abortion?

“You said you don't consider a life a life if it is yet to be finished”

We have a misunderstanding here. I admit the word ‘finished’ is indeed not very appropriate in this case. It should be ‘fully formed’ or ‘fully developed’.

+++++

”God did not create abortion, man did. God did not create condoms either.”

I never say God is the culprit but abortion is a real issue His children must face with an open mind (God told me denying or avoiding the issue is NOT the way forward but finding a solution in accordance to the prevailing cirscumstances is most probably the answer) whereas condom is just a tool invented by His children using the very intelligence conferred by Him. God is great!

+++++

“This makes me so angry. Only a psycho would suggest aborting a baby as a form of contraception.”

Calm down. Abortion is NOT a form of contraception. See your dictionary …

”That's the problem with blogs. It gives idiots like you a podium. Go get a brain and learn to think before you decide to speak, or write, or whatever”

You are entitled to your opinions but I somehow don’t feel the one you have just mentioned is a constructive one.
BTW, constructive criticism is welcome here.

12:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Listen, you aren't supposed to drink the bong water. Chill on that for a little.

1:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

La Bona,

thanxs for posting the same comment twice on my blog...

So U think basically that abortion shud b allowed rite? and u 'CLAIM' that muslims do a lot of things...which I aint even gonna bother go in2.

Firstly, lemmi point out that I posted an answer to ur comment, but I dont think u bothered reading it, so u posted another comment xactly the same on my next post!

Secondly, b4 u make these 'CLAIMS' regarding what other religions believe I think you shud look at ur sources and determine whether they r credible or not.

Now having done research academically I know that with each statement u make there shud b facts 2 support ur statement and that these shud b sourced and quoted so that ur 'CLaims' have any basis at all.This is what U havnt obviously done.

So, now we come to the issue of abortion.
Whilst Islam permits certain forms of contraception for specific reasons e.g. if the health of the mother will be seriously jeopardised if she becomes pregnant, Muslim scholars agree that abortion is forbidden; it is a crime against a live human being. If, though it is established that the continuation of pregnancy will result in death of the mother, then abortion is allowed. The mother’s life takes precedence over that of her baby in such an instance because the mother is already established in life with duties and responsibilities.

Imam Ghazalli (Born 1058, died 1111) distinguished between contraception and abortion by saying, “Contraception is not like abortion. Abortion is a crime against the existing being. Existence has various stages. The first is the settling of the semen in the womb and it’s mixing with the egg of the woman. It is then ready to receive life. Disturbing it is a crime. When it develops further and becomes a lump, abortion is a greater crime. When it acquires a soul and its creation is complete the crime becomes even more grievous. The crime reaches its maximum seriousness after the foetus is separated from its mother alive.” (Al-Ihya)

To answer this question further, let us take a look at embryology in the Noble Quran:

"He created you (all) from a single person: then created, of like nature, his mate; and he sent down for you eight head of cattle in pairs: He makes you, in the wombs of your mothers, in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness. such is God, your Lord and Cherisher: to Him belongs (all) dominion. There is no god but He: then how are ye turned away (from your true Centre)? (The Noble Quran, 39:6)"

"Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay); (The Noble Quran, 23:12)"

"Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest, firmly fixed; (The Noble Quran, 23:13)"

"Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be God, the best to create! (The Noble Quran, 23:14)"

"Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)? (The Noble Quran, 75:37)"

"Then did he become a leech-like clot; then did (God) make and fashion (him) in due proportion. (The Noble Quran, 75:38)"

"And of him He made two sexes, male and female. (The Noble Quran, 75:39)"

"Him Who created thee. Fashioned thee in due proportion, and gave thee a just bias; (The Noble Quran, 82:7)"

"In whatever Form He wills, does He put thee together. (The Noble Quran, 82:8)"

"O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs). (The Noble Quran, 22:5)"

"Verily We created Man from a drop of mingled sperm, in order to try him: So We gave him (the gifts), of Hearing and Sight. (The Noble Quran, 76:2)"

Notice in all of the above Noble Verses, Allah Almighty talks about how He Himself takes control of our creation from the time of intercourse till the time of birth. Notice how He takes full control and responsibility over everything! If a child is born deformed, then it is because He, the Almighty, Willed it while the child was still a foetus. If the child is born as a male or female, then it is because Allah Almighty willed it. Therefore, since Allah Almighty clearly considered it as a "great sin" for killing our "children" in Noble Verse 17:31 and He clearly took the full ownership and responsibility of our creation from A to Z, then for those who fear Allah Almighty and believe that His Punishment and Wrath are real, then they shouldn't resort to committing the sinful crime of abortion.
The formation of the foetus was described in the Quran over 1400 years ago, when technology wasn’t’ even basic.

To see more evidence of only recently discovered scientific discoveries that were revealed in the quran over 1400 years ago please check out:

www.islam-guide.com

To finish, I'm not an islamic scholar or anything, so what ive given u is just a basic overview of the islamic perspective of abortion.If a woman is raped she is not obliged to keep a child of such an evil attack, this is stated by Sheikh Yusuf Qadarawi in an answer found on www.islamonline.net

So uc La Bona, its not a simple act of 'CLAIMING' something, to add any basis 2 ur statements u need 2 add sum facts, afterall this is ur blog and what u say is ur opinion BUT if u wanna go around making statements with no evidence then it obviously doesnt hold any basis.

Oh have u ever seen what an aborted foetus looks like????
Im sur if you do ud understand y abortion is unlawful in Islam.

Thanks.

Mujahidah an Nafs

3:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“If the 15yr. old is in school and can't handle a baby, then she can give the baby up for adoption

In the first place, why don’t we just stop a problem before it becomes a bigger problem? Don’t you think prevention is better than cure?"

OK. Here's a problem. Let's say that someone's elderly father gets very sick. They have no money, can't get him in a nursing home. No insurance, can hardly handle working and taking care of him. So, why not just kill him. It's the same way you want to take care of the problem with the baby? If you can kill the baby to fix a problem, what's wrong with kiling this man? Don't you see how wrong that is??

Of course, I can't decide if you are really trying to be all serious about this... or if you're just trying to rile up some people on here. Either way, it's sad.

3:34 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

"Let's say that someone's elderly father gets very sick. They have no money, can't get him in a nursing home. No insurance, can hardly handle working and taking care of him. So, why not just kill him."

You are comparing a living human being and a yet to be formed being, it’s akin to compare an apple to an orange whereas Mujahidah an Nafs (I’d come back to you shortly) has mentioned there are circumstances when abortion is legit in Islam, bravo.

How about lets put this way, if you are infected with disease (it must be God’s will), why not just don’t bother, leave it … because seeking medical treatment must be a form human intervention (God may not like it) and someday you either get over it just like that (when God is happy) or you may get so sick that you probably end up dying pathetically (when God’s finally decided you aren’t a worthy candidate to live in this material world)?

Appreciate it if you could see it from the social and economic perspective.

4:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As soon as the sperm and egg meet, and the egg is fertilized, the baby is a baby. So, from that point on, anything we do to get rid of it is murder. Sorry to burst your bubble. And God gave us brains, so doctors are just using what God gave them, the brains and the gifts to help people. Just sittin and doing nothing when you have a disease and they can help ya, that's just not too wise.

11:18 PM  
Blogger Joe said...

So are you gonna keep banning me for saying your "god" experience might be a psychotic episode, or indigestion? So be it. Your god is probably a fraud anyway.

11:44 PM  
Anonymous Naheeda said...

I notice your question on this theme from lws's blog site.
My religion, Islam doesnt allow abortion, unless mother's ill or problem with baby in womb.

2:30 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

Thanks Naheeda. Again, I think we should rethink if a total ban on abortion which has created lot of social problems is something legitimate, divinely speaking.

Ugly Facts: Muslims (and Catholic) countries are grossly overpopulated and remain some of the poorest in the world!

12:31 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

From AmReporter@aol.com to me

I am opposed to abortion.

Best,

Joe

Joe Shea
Editor-in-Chief
The American Reporter
www.american-reporter.com

8:03 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

from Dan Flynn

la bona, darling I beleive in a woman's right to choose what to do with her own body. Simple as that really.

10:58 AM  
Blogger La Bona said...

from Guyana-Gyal

My view on abortion?

I dunno. With some issues I vacillate, but I've been supportive of 2 gal pals who had abortions and turned to me for support.

P.S. Never heard that Muslims are anti-contraceptive.

10:59 AM  
Blogger La Bona said...

from Anna

Abortion: Buddhist View

(extracted from http://www.changesurfer.com/Bud/BudBioEth.html )

ABORTION

....

The second question is whether abortion always generates bad karma, or in Western terms, is it ever "justified." This relates to the debate about whether Buddhist ethics are absolutist, utilitarian or "virtuist," i.e. seeing the good in the development of personal qualities. The absolutist would hold that bad karma is incurred from any act of murder, whatever the justifications. The utilitarian would argue that murder can be a compassionate act with positive karmic consequences, taking into account factors such as the health of the fetus or mother, the population crisis, and the readiness of the parents to raise a child.

A virtue-oriented Buddhist would argue that the attitude and motivations of the pregnant woman and her collaborators would determine the ethics of an abortion. Along this line, Tworkov (1992) argues that the karmic skilfulness of an abortion is related to whether the person became pregnant and made her decision to abort without serious mindfulness. From this perspective, aborting a fetus conceived without an effort at contraception would be more karmically significant than an abortion necessitated in spite of contraception.

The much discussed Japanese tolerance for, and ritualization of, abortion appears to combine both utilitarian and virtue approaches. The Japanese believe that abortion is a "sorrowful necessity," and Buddhist temples sell rituals and statues intended to represent parents' apologies to the aborted, and wishes for a more propitious rebirth. The Japanese have reached these accommodations consensually, with little debate, and without discussion of the rights of women or the unborn (LaFleur, 1990, 1992).

The Theravaadin commentator Buddhaghosa appears to have combined all three views. He held that killing produces karma jointly through the mental effort and intensity of the desire to kill, and the virtue of the victim (Florida, 1991). Since killing big animals required more effort, and was therefore worse than killing small animals, the karma of feticide would be less than murder of adults, and less in earlier stages of pregnancy. On the other hand, for Buddhaghosa, the karma of feticide would be greater than that of killing villains in self-defence.

Buddhists have thus far given little thought to the third important question, the connection between morality and law, specifically how, and on what grounds, the state should regulate abortion. Some Buddhists have adopted the stance of many moderates in the West: abortion is murder of a person, but women should have that choice (for instance, Imamura, 1984 and Lecso, 1987). Since most Buddhists have no problem with laws to discourage and punish murder in general, implicit in this position is that murder is either justifiable when it conflicts with bodily autonomy or, since few Buddhists would imprison butchers, that fetuses are closer in status to animals. Clearly there is much room for clarification of the relationship between religious ethics and law in pluralistic societies.

Some scholars (such as Ling, 1969, and LaFleur, 1992) have looked beyond the strictly ethical concerns with abortion to examine the cultural aspects of the question. From this perspective it is sometimes pointed out that Buddhism is not "pro-natalist," i.e. does not hold that reproduction is a religious duty - quite the reverse in fact - and does not advocate "family values," at least in the sense that Confucianism did. Buddhist skepticism about family and reproduction was a central cause of Confucian and Shinto persecution. The Sinhalese embrace of contraception and abortion was so enthusiastic in the 1960s, compared to Sri Lanka's Muslims, Catholics and Hindus, that racialist monks began to argue that Buddhists had an obligation to "race-religion-nation" to reproduce.

4:20 PM  
Blogger Tiffany said...

You posted a question on my blog about abortions.

I think abortions are very wrong,it is a human life that is being killed, I don't care if heart is not beating yet, it is human life and human soul.
If a 15 year old girl is old enough to lay down and have sex, she is able to have child. Who cares about her future? I sure as hell don't, she needs to step up and take for her child or find it a loving home.
Their are way too many couples out there that can't have kids and want them so badly, and their are women and girls killing their kids, when all they have to do is carry it and give birth and hann the child to a loving family.

9:29 PM  
Blogger YouToldHarpoTaBeatMe said...

If a 15yr old is incapable of having and raising a child, well then it appears that she shouldn't be having sex either, therefore....BAD EXAMPLE. Would you happen to have biblical scripture supporting your cause? By the way "eye for an eye" is NOT a good reference, where an innocent child is concerned.

10:26 PM  
Blogger Vidya said...

Depends on whether you think of the fetus as being a living being or just a bunch of cells...

12:22 AM  
Blogger Anika From Darwin said...

My body, my choice.

12:45 AM  
Blogger David L. said...

This is a comment to this statement you left on another blog:


"I personally see abortion as a NECESSARY EVIL and that unwanted pregnancy is not only a personal problem and it is also a very real problem for the society at large.

Do you think it is right to burden say a 15 years old school-going girl with a new life when she is yet to have any economic mean to sustain herself and obviously, most girls of her age are not mentally ready for a family life. Furthermore, is it fair to rob her of her career, aspiration, dream etc., in the name of preserving a life that is yet to be fully developed."

Yes, it is "FAIR" that this child have to shoulder her burden, pay for her mistake. You people condone the use of abortion as "a fix-it" for irresponsibe sex-queens! God forbid that this girl pay the price for being promiscuous despite the thousands of ad's on TV, Radio and on pamphlets that warn her about having premarital, unprotected sex. Why does the unborn child (a living human being) have to be murdered because this 15 year old slut can't keep her pants on? Whatever ... you don't have to answer to me, you only have to answer to God and all those murdered souls who are patiently waiting by his side for your arrival! Abortion is MURDER anyway you look at it!

4:15 AM  
Blogger Melissa Garwood said...

Just putting in my two cents:

Who are we to decide what choice a pregnant woman-no matter what age or situation makes on the future of an unborn child. If she feels ready and able to have a child fair enough, if she does not, then why should she go through with it simply because other people believe abortion is wrong. Asking her to have the baby and then give it up is a horrid thing to do-believe me. No matter which way you look at it-it doesn't matter what you think unless it's you who is the one with the baby.

PS: I'm pro choice. (If you hadn't guessed).

7:25 AM  
Blogger TheSaga said...

ummm, well i used to be strongly pro-choice but after i saw my unplanned baby on the ultrasound, i think if someone is going to have an abortion they should do it hellafied early on. we could have aborted the baby still when we found out she was pregnant but by then he was so fully developed, we just couldnt.

i wont get into religion. that shit can be misconstrued too much.

4:35 PM  
Blogger Chairman eDog said...

I totally agree with you, La Bona. Economic factors should determine whether one gets an abortion. All poor should have their children aborted. Period. I don't care if they even want them--they're too poor, stupid, and irresponsible to properly rear their spawn. And then spay them. Thanks for recognizing the economic factors that trump all ethical considerations.

Next, we should talk about the economic need to reinstitute chattel slavery. Do you know how hard it is to get good help for less than $10 an hour?

5:22 PM  
Blogger Bloghead said...

Thank you, for visiting and post your comment.

Here's my view on ABORTION. For me I will only aggree with abortion if it's to save another life like the mother. For example, the pregnancy might have life-threatening for the mother. So, whom to save? Well, to my opinion and several others 'scholars', we should save the mother first.

Other then that, like you say, the case of the school girl or whatever. Abortion shouldn't be the choice. She can always give away the child to the orphanage or to others that have the means to take care. It's better then killing the innocent child just because of some stupid mistake make by the school girl. Society, should be responsible of taking care of the child not just the school girl. Because, indirectly they are the cause of this teenage pregnancy and whatever. Just look at the US or any other country for that matter that 'encourage' teenage sex. The society have no moral values. They let, all this teenage kids mix around. Parents, working and doesn't care what their kids are into etc.

In the end everybody is responsible for the baby. Also, giving away the child is better then killing it because, there are couple out there that do have problem having a child. So, why not give to this people who are more stable to take care of the child? Isn't it a better solution then killing the baby?

Killing a life, for that matter an un-born child should only be a last resort. And that also to save another life.

There's always a solution for everything. But, killing an un-born child ain't one of them.

That's my opinion.

12:01 AM  
Blogger Wayne Smallman said...

These kinds of issues are contentious enough and require great deal of reasoning, consideration for circumstance and a great swathe of other issues .. then religion comes along, assumes the moral high ground and makes arbitrary, entirely illogical and utterly emotive decisions that only make things worse.

Abortion really is the path that isn't taken lightly, and is a path that's trodden much too often. But it's path with little variation and one that once set upon is undeviating and difficult.

While often the most logical route to take, it's far from the idea route.

But the question of abortion is now a battle of scientific discovery against old-world theological dogma, whereby the argument is the definition of life itself.

I am absolutely confident that should the various religious parties loose this argument, they will only take it upon themselves to pull the discussion to a new field of conflict in an attempt to assert the perceived superiority of their way of thinking, such is their fervent desire to win at all costs, no matter the cost to morality, ethics, free will or simple humanity.

However, as a geneticist said recently; and I must paraphrase: a genetic blob of tissue does not a life maketh...

6:40 AM  
Blogger Norbert Sczepanski said...

hi, i agree with you: abortion only + only IF the mothers life is in danger AND IF the mother was sexually abused. thats my opinion.
norbert sczepanski germany
PS
God bless our children :-)

2:08 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

I think your example of the 15 year old girl is not a very well thought out one.

First of all, it is not the baby's fault the mother got pregnant when she didn't want to be. Assuming the sex was a conscience decision of the mother and not rape, there are still plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy that should be utilized. I'm not saying abstinance, I'm saying condoms, the Pill, both, whatever works.

But now, since no contraceptive other than abstinance is 100% effective, we must assume an unwanted pregnancy will eventually occur. In this case, I don't see why so many people believe that allowing the pregnancy to continue will 'ruin the girl's life'. That is in no way true and is a very ignorant response and excuse for abortion. Adoption is so so easy. And there are plenty of people on waiting list dieing to have a baby who can't have one themselves. There is nothing wrong with giving your baby away if it means the baby will have a good home no matter what anyone says. You should not be ashamed to put a baby up for adoption, it does not make you bad person. Denying a baby the right to live makes you a bad person.

3:36 PM  
Blogger migue2c said...

Hello, I am Spanish and I do not have a very good level of ingles, pardon if I commit errors.


I think that the abortion must practice as long as exist violations, either to minor or other women. He must be very hard, to have a son of the person who is violet to you, and the son is not going to be traido to a love family. Also I believe that it is logical to practice the abortion, when it is a pregnancy nonwished. Also I want to make a call to that people try to avoid these using the suitable measures. That it is not a game.

A greeting

6:21 PM  
Blogger Adrian said...

I am anti-abortion based on my religious views, but being a realist also, I believe that in certain instances, a child is better off not having lived than living in a world without love, shelter or other such basic needs.

Lets face facts- adoption is not really an option. Orphanages arent exactly carnival-like places of joy, are they? And if the potential parent cant economically afford to raise a child properly, how can we subject the child to a sub-standard way of life?

Whilst I would make every endeavour to discourage a person from making the decision to have the abortion, I would leave the judgement between them and God if they did choose to do so.

7:39 PM  
Blogger chinyew said...

i believe Time has progress. and God knows. God understand.
we should stop looking God as a headmaster instead look up
to him as a loving father. bible. i believe God allow some
darkness in able for us to see light. He believes in our judgement. and i believe he allow some elements to be in there for a reason, judging from truth or untruth. sometimes the core is the inner voice of ourselves judging. abortion. if you think is right, then its right. if the guilt is there and you'll know the answer. but the judgmental of other parties of the carrier of the baby is not important. the only importance is the mother. God has rules. but He also loves you very much. and this unconditional love is what we should give back to Him. He appears in alot of shape. Christian, Islam, Buddhist, Hindus, etc. He is One. and all truth are truth for the one person's path. my last words, concentrate on yr inner self, mother, and ask God, does he allow you to do it. there is no right or wrong in abortion. there is only types of acceptance in us. and God made our acceptances individually for a reason. He wants us to debate to progress. the importance of it is not whether its right or wrong. the importance of it is that we question. and accept everything open mindly. and i believe His such a great guy, He is the most open-minded-forgiving-loving Father. God bless.

-chinyew

12:28 AM  
Blogger Megan said...

I feel sure I will only be repeating something others have said, but:

I believe people should have the right to choose for themselves. While I do not personally believe in it (for myself), I also don't believe its my right to tell someone else they cannot have an abortion. Although, I truly believe it should be reserved for life threatening situations, situations of rape or incest, etc.

I believe pretty strongly in the option of adoption; I know several friends from high school who made this choice rather than abortion. However, I also know there are issues of doctor visits and hospital bills that not everyone can afford. So I would say I am pro-choice, even though it is not the choice for me. Plus, if I have the right to choose not to have an abortion (which I should) then others should have the right to choose to have an abortion.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

8:50 AM  
Blogger JDM2 said...

Interesting topic of debate. I have a stance on the issue, but I'd rather not fill up your blog with a long diatribe, so I'll just post it on mine.

9:36 PM  
Blogger Jesus said...

Hello.

I'm not entirely sure I know what to believe about abortions.

I don't think you can decide if something is right or wrong from the outside.

I do think that if I ever went through an 'unwanted' pregnancy, I wouldn't have the heart to have an abortion. But I suppose it would depend on what stage of my life I was at.

12:24 PM  
Blogger Reyna Elena 2k said...

Hello there!

Thank you very much for your compliment on my blog. It means a great deal to me as I love to write.

Regarding your views on abortion, I myself am pro choice. Initially, having grown up in a Catholic household, we were taught that abortion is a great sin.

As I got older and saw more of the world outside of what I knew, I realized more and more that no, abortion is necessary in a case where there is rape, threat to the mother's or child's health, or ill timing.

However, I would like to clarify that I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT CONDONE those who use abortion as a means of 'birth control'.

Teenage pregnancies are on the rise. A sad fact. Firstly, it would be wonderful if we could get over the religious nonsense and teach our kids about safe sex. By parents saying "Don't do it" only increases the likelihood of problems: unwanted pregancy or worse, diseases.

In a case of teenage girls, they are not emotionally ready to take on the psychological and physiological changes. By many in society pounding the "abortion is wrong" mantra into their heads, they will either drop out of school to find whatever job they can to support them and their child (which, as we all know, is NOT enough), or would have to place the baby up for adoption, which, contrary to popular belief, isn't as easy as it seems.

They themselves are still children. How can a child raise another? It just doesn't work.

12:52 AM  

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WARNING: Blind obsession with prophecy can be perilous or even fatal, reader discretion is advised! Submitted to God as His worldly Activist on a non-exclusive basis since June 15, 2005 1:00 am ET. “La Bona” is a professional name inspired by God; it means "The Righteous", “The Virtuous” or simply “The Good” in Esperanto (a neutral international language). DivineTalk® is an Open Commentary Forum dedicated to God for His Children to engage in dialogue, discourse and debate on laws, standards and values on morality, lifestyle, ethics, business and just about anything else related to their life. God enlightened to have His Words improvised and updated with the prevailing circumstances so that the divine guidance, dogma and policy will evolve with time and stay relevant to His Children in the very era they live in as the way forward. La Bona is a Truth Seeker, Myth Buster, Freedom Fighter, Cyber Activist, Liberal Animal, Good Samaritan, Messiah Wannabe and in order to serve His Children of diverse backgrounds, La Bona is motivated and aim to eventually multitask as Divine Representative, Contemporary Prophet, Celestial Executive, Deity Clairvoyant, Holy Spiritualist ...

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