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Wednesday, June 22, 2005

Abortion II ... Pros & Cons

Abortion I refers.

I invited views from the public on abortion and I have since received many comments both Pro and Anti ... looking at the issue from a variety of perspective including the religious ones; Christian, Islam, Hindu, Buddhist (please see commentary in Abortion I for the various views) as well as some are based on social and economic reasonings.

Thank you all for the feedback and comments which I personally find informative and I am sure God will be overwhelmed (you bet He is a reading your comments).

As expected, most the religious quarters will insist No, No and No (it's murder ... Period). While some rational souls argue “It depends on whether you think of the fetus as being a living being or just a bunch of cells ...”, there are liberal minds out there think this is should be a matter of personal choice.

I personally feel we should always take the social economic factors into consideration. Don’t forget, unwanted pregnancy is a much bigger problem in places where there is no proper social assistance in place, particularly the developing world which is the very reason why I am seeking opinions on the subject matter on a worldwide basis.

Here is a related blog posted by Fortune Hunter from The Boonies, Canada

Ice Cold and Shaken

"...a NECESSARY EVIL and that unwanted pregnancy is not only a personal problem and it is also a very real problem for the society at large…”

I agree and disagree. Point being – it’s totally a personal situation a woman find herself in and society is only involved because of society’s stance stemming from it’s own internal and overseeing body of government, politics, religion and cultural ethics. "Do you think it is right to burden say a 15 years old school-going girl with a new life when she is yet to have any economic mean to sustain herself and obviously, most girls of her age are not mentally ready for a family life.”

Whether a 14, 15, 18, 21 right through to being 50 + years of age – abortion is abortion. Mentally is dependant on the individual. It’s easy to stereotype and assume a 16 year old has less means then a 30-year old woman. It’s also easy to assume the younger the woman the less we see them as mentally ready for family. But step back and think how many young mothers have done it and succeeded? Step back and think about how many 30 year old women we come across that have zero parenting skills no income, yet keep having children (I could go on and on with different situations – but you get the gist). So, mentally is dependant on the individual and age – although a factor – has little to do with it in that regards.
“Furthermore, is it fair to rob her of her career, aspiration, dream etc., in the name of preserving a life that is yet to be fully developed.”

There are many factors, thoughts and decisions that are made based on the woman’s choice. Has little to do with robbing her of future hypothetical aspirations and careers. A 16 year old can have a child,and through resources and support – can achieve anything. She might take longer to get there – but it is possible to reach it and achievement is based on her own personal strive, determination and support systems.

Fortune’s entire take on the matter: Should abortion be a legal choice? Yes. Even if it is banned internationally women will still find ways to end pregnancy. They have been doing it for years and just because government, religion or politics says No – it will still be a part of society. Women of all ages should be able to make a choice based on their own situation. And they should have access to proper medical, health and resources for such a decision. Regardless of race, culture, religion, income, living standards or age.

Pregnancy happens. We all know it can happen at 15 when the world is your oyster and the future uncertain. It can happen at 25 when things are going strong and career is heading upwards. Let it hit at 30 when you could be making great money with a kick ass job. But maybe it was with a high school sweetheart and you both didn’t know better, maybe it happened with a guy from the bar one night, maybe it happened with the 35 year old career set man who just doesn’t want children. Like I said, abortion is abortion no matter what scenario or hypothetical concoction we come up with. Therefore …

A woman needs to have the choice and such a choice needs to be met with the proper resources and support systems. Because ultimately, it’s a decision only her and her alone will hold for the rest of her life ...
Let’s continue to talk about it in the name of liberty and for the wellbeing of mankind.

PS: There are 47 comments in Abortion I


Blogger La Bona said...

from Matthew "The Machine" Anderson

As a man, well, I can't really comment too much on the subject. Anything I say is from a different perspective, as I'm not the one that is forced to carry the child to term. However....

On a personal note, I believe that abortion is wrong....but should we make abortion illegal? Oh, hell no.

While I would discourage a woman that was having an abortion from going through with the procedure, it is not my body, and, therefore, not my choice. It is not my job to determine anyone else's morality for them.

oh, and yes...you can use that quote, hon.

11:43 AM  
Blogger La Bona said...

from Hooligan

I would have to agree with Mr. Machine here. Men shouldn't have outspoken opinions on this subject. It makes me sick to see these right to lifer crowds that are half men.....

On the topic of legality: Abortion should be legal. If they made it illegal again, we'd be back to the days of wire hangers and botched surguries done in some makeshift back alley operating room.

11:47 AM  
Blogger Chairman eDog said...

Hey, La Bona. I just planted Hydrangeas, which as God knows require a lot of water to grow and thrive. What's God have in store for the Atlanta area this summer weatherwise?

Oh, and this other question has been killing me. Ask God if he can make a burrito so hot that even he can't eat it. This will settle several bets for me and bring me inner peace. Amen.

5:29 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

from MistaOil

The case for legality of abortion is not just for the rights of women to make their own decisions about their body, or about what happens to their bodies if abortions are made illegal (i..e coathangers), although these are, to me, both convincing reasons.

In 1990, there were 2,245 murders in New York City. These were the peak years of drive by shootings and gangs. Experts were predicting astronomical increases in the next century. But it turns out that in 2003 there were only 596 murders in New York City.

What happened?

In 1973, the Supreme Court ruled that abortion was legal in Roe vs. Wade. This caused a great increase in abortions among poor women in the 1970's. If these kids had been born, they would have been a set of children that would have had a relatively high rate of criminal behavior. The first effects on society of these "missing criminals" began to take effect when they would have been juveniles in the late 1990's. It turns out that, although there may be other reasons, legalized abortion is probably the main reason for the huge drop in crime that has occurred across the US in the last few years. It's well documented; you can look up the evidence in the book "Freakonomics," by Stephen Levitt, a highly regarded economist at the University of Chicago.


from FortuneHunter

I'm on it right now - I seriously never considered that.

Then again - I'm just a Canuck in the boonies.

What do I know about New York Stats.

That was great!! You got me thinking ....hmmmmm about something.

9:56 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

from Miguel Frederico Cavazzini Botha de Paiva

At that age, a 15 year old girl should be playing with dolls or having her first experiences with boys which shouldn't include having sex with them. If she is ready for that stage and she finds it funnier to have orgasms instead of playing with dolls, then she should also be old enough to take care of a child. Or give this child for adoption. Or leave the child in the hospital. At least the child could have a chance which people like you dont want to. Killing the baby/fetus whatever is not only a selfish act but a murder and worse of them all: to kill one of our own blood! All you people think is about abortio, abortion, abortion. Do you ever think about life? If the little girl's life is destroyed (which you cant know for sure) it is a consequence of her actions. It is not the child's fault.

9:58 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

from MIke R

I see you are tackling a very tough
subject, abortion, and I'll be more than happy to explain my views as complicated as they might be.

I believe you are right when you say that abortion, in a way, is a "necessary evil".

If I were a lawmaker or judge, would I attempt to overturn Roe V. Wade?- No; but that's not to say that the status quo is alright.

There are a very high number of abortions in this country, as I am sure there are around the world.

I don't understand the views of those who are so ready to change the laws this country, and everywhere else for that matter, because they disagree with the decision made in Roe v. Wade.

They treat those who have abortions as reckless, irresponsible women who were not ready for motherhood, and at the same time, fight against informing our children in schools how best to protect themselves from unwanted pregnancies.

The argument that abortion is morally wrong does have its arguments, but the way the proponents of this idea go
around trying to change the rules is inconsistent.

They want no abortions, no sex ed class, no condom commercials, in fact, they would like altogether for people to not have sex until they are married and only then to have children.

Those in the government who encourage adoption before abortion, do nothing to help their cause.

Here in Texas, children were dying of starvation and abuse under the state's supervision.

That's not helping matters in my opinion. Opponents of abortion believe that girls and women
who go get abortions are doing so as if its a trip to the grocery store with no realization of what they're doing.

It is unfortunate that our lawmakers spend their whole time arguing the legality of legalized abortions, but instead do nothing to understand why women, both young and old, are having them.

A girl who might have an abortion will probably widely criticized in our society if she were not raped, but a woman who neglects her child and can't feed or clothe it will be asked why she had a child in the first place. And then with the unwillingness to talk about pregnancy prevention, where does that leave women?

This a very tough issue to deal with, this is a problem for all of society to deal with and talk about, not just criticize those who have them. As for my views as to whether or not a fetus is a living person, it is both yes and no.

A fetus that has existed for over
three months in my mind, is a living creature, but I do not believe that life begins at conception; I tend to agree more with the theory in Judaism
known as "the quickening".

10:07 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

from Julia

In my opinion, yes, it is absolutely fair for her to give up her dreams and aspirations to carry the child to full term.

Firstly, no one ever said she was required to keep the child and raise it. There are many, many couples all over the owrld who would love to adopt the baby.

"Giving up dreams and aspirations" is a very weak excuse and a poor line of reasoning for abortions. The girl relinquished her rights to that the moment she chose to engage in sexual intercourse.

Sex is a powerful thing and should be treated responsibly. When a person decides to engage in adult activities, it is only fair that they accept adult consequences.

Killing a child simply because an immature girl doesnt want to deal with the consequences of 9 months of pregnancy (remember, no one said she had to keep the baby) is outrageous and unvalidated.

When life is taken under such light pretenses, where is the reverence and respect for such a thing?

As humans we try to respect the life of the environment, the animals, and other people--yet an unborn human is seen without rights simply because it is unborn? There is absolutely no logic in that.

The validation of abortion fights against everything civil rights groups have worked hard to achieve.

The case of rape is often brought up as a reason for abortion, but out of all the abortions performed, VERY few are from that scenario. Most are from the situation you described--an immature brat who fooled around with adult things and wants to weasel her way out of adult consequences.

While a pregnancy due from rape is a devestating thing, still--why should the child have to pay for the sins of another? It was not the child's fault the mother was raped or got pregnant.

As difficult and sad as it is, the child should be allowed to be carried to full term because of its rights as a human regardless of the circumstances surrounding the pregnancy.

10:09 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

from elia annel rosas gonzalez

Well, about the abortion is a bad action, but, in any moment in the woman life is very confused and uncomfortable dedide if is good or bad the abortion, i know many cases like that and the guirls really are need of help and orientation.

If i can help you to try to solve this despicable action, you have my aid.

10:10 PM  
Blogger vinacious said...

Hello --

Thanks for visiting one of my blogs, The Primadonna Piglet Princess. On abortion, I really do not believe in it, and I do have strong opinions against it. My husband and I had our baby Tala a year before we got married. She was unexpected, that is for certain. We had plans with regards to our respective careers and had our future together planned out. But abortion never occurred to me as an option. Maybe it is because I was raised Catholic, or maybe it is also because I am an ethics advocate and strongly believe that any pregnancy warrants responsibility. The child had nothing to do with the mother's (and father's) mistake and therefore should not be punished for it.

Having said that, I do like your blog very much and will link it to my own. :-)

7:56 AM  
Blogger La Bona said...

Vinacious, you are welcome and thank you all for commenting ...

11:51 AM  
Blogger sharkpitt said...

well hello there,a very interesting issue.being a muslim abortion is definite no-no.it is considered as an act of killing an innocent victim whick is the child.

the mother of the child has to give birth and play her role as a mother.i know it's gonna be difficult esp. if its a young single mother(usually the guys irresponsably would not commit!)but that just it.

being humans we are prone to mistake.taking away life of an innocent child is even a bigger sin itself!

thank you

12:29 PM  
Blogger Heather Michelle said...

Thank you for commenting on my blog. To briefly respond to your question, I disagree with abortion completely. I must also add, however, that something needs to be done about the number of rapes. A woman who is raped and finds herself pregnant often makes a rash decision in the heat of the moment. Often that same woman would be someone who would normally avidly disagree with abortion as well. I am not saying that this makes the act okay, BUT those against abortion need to consider this and maybe help clean up the rape problem as well.

6:06 PM  
Blogger Isaac said...

Abortion is an issue that should be weighed in light of the interests of the mother, the fetus, and society at large. In each case it is different. But there are cases in which it is not only acceptly, but the morally correct thing to do. For example, should a pregnancy endanger the mother's life, it would be immoral for doctor's and lawyer's to deny her access to an abortion. If a government were to restrict abortions it would negate the possibility of doing the correct thing in such a situation, even if it were to prevent abortions made in the wrong situations as well. The absence of government regulations on this issue allows the doctor and mother to decide what is the best action for that specific situation, allowing the right course of action to be taken in all cases. If abortion is restricted by the government it would be unlawful for doctors and mothers to chose this as a course of action even when it is appropriate.

Traditional Jewish arguements about abortion generally result in a broad consensus of authorities who find abortion to be morally justifiable.

Exodus 21:22- the punishment for causing the death of a fetus is a pecuniary fine while the punishment for causing the death of the mother is death (Talmudic requirements about witnesses and evidence standards make execution virtually impossible in Jewish law, and I should add that the Reform rabbis of the Cental Council of American Rabbis issued a statement in which the use of the death penalty was condemned in all cases. And Maimonides stated that this passage does not mean that the perpetrator should be killed, but only that his soul is not cleansed of the crime by monetary payment as it is in the case of the death of the fetus, and the criminal is required to beg for forgiveness and will serve punishment at God's hands). However, the example shown from the biblical passages cited above clearly designates the life of the fully living mother as more valuable than the life of the fetus.

Babylonian Talmud; Yevamot 69b:
The embryo is considered to be mere water until the 40th day.

Babylonian Talmud; Sanhedrin 72b:
(Lav nefesh hu) The fetus is not a person

Mishna; Oholot 7,6:
It may be necessary to sacrifice a potential life to save a fully existent life.If the mother is endangered, the fetus is to be dismembered limb by limb and removed to save her life. Once 1/2 the body or the head of the baby emerge from the mother, neither may be willfully sacrificed for the sake of the other. This makes medical sense too, because the mother is at high risk until after the head has fully emerged.

Rambam (Maimonides) classifies a baby that is more than 1/2 emerged that endangers the life of the mother as rodef, or a pursuer/aggressor. According to some interpretations of Jewish law one is entitled to kill a rodef. Thus Rambam, a doctor as well as a rabbi, allowed the sacrifice of the baby in order to preserve the life of the mother even after the child was more than 1/2 emerged, thereby becoming a full life. It is interesting that he applied this explicitly to a baby that is 1/2 emerged, and not to the baby who's head has fully emerged, because, once again, it appears that Jewish law has taken medical considerations into account, understanding that a baby emerging feet-first is more likely to constitute a threat to the mother even after is deemed a complete life than a baby who's head has already emerged (which Rambam does not consider as a potential threat to the mother).

The sages ruled that when a woman has difficulty in giving birth, one dismembers the fetus in the womb--either with drugs or surgery--because the fetus is like a pursuer (rodef) trying to kill her. Once its head emerges, it may not be touched, for we may not set aside one life for another; this is the natural course of the world.

More recent legal precedent within Judaism includes the following:

If the fetus is diagnosed with a terminal illness such as Tay-Sachs disease, or if it is not expected to live for the first 30 days after birth and is certain to die in childhood, the fetus may be aborted. However, non-terminal genetic defects are not grounds for abortion. Thus, a mother is not permitted to abort a fetus because she does not want to raise a mentally retarded child.

Rabbi Ben Zion Uziel, the former Chief Rabbi of Israel ruled [Responsa, Mishpetei Uziel, vol. III] that abortion was acceptable in a case in which the mother would be made deaf in the course of her pregnancy or childbirth unless she aborted the fetus.

Rabazu also ruled that abortion was acceptable in a case in which a mother was driven mad and exhibited suicidal tendencies due to stress about her pregnancy. The mother's life was deemed more valuable than the partial life of the fetus.

He also ruled that abortion was acceptable if doctors decided that a cessarian section delivery was necessary, and the mother did not want to go through with such a procedure. The reasoning was two-fold: 1) that the procedure would cause her great anxiety and 2) that it would weaken her womb and endanger the lives of the subsequent children to whom she planned to give birth.

In cases of rape the mother has been sanctioned in her decision to seek an abortion to save her from suffering mental and emotional anguish.

In a case (before the present-day conveniences such as baby formula) in which a woman became pregnant in a remote area in which no potential wet nurse could be found, and the mother was unable to produce milk, the preganancy was permitted to be terminated to prevent the child from dying of starvation after birth.

Jewish consensus holds that the fetus gradually aquires more of a soul from its 40th day until either its head or 1/2 of its body have emreged, making it complete life only at the moment of birth. The soul, or partial soul as it may be, of the fetus is considered to be pure and clean, and is assured a portion of heaven should it die.

Most rabbis agree that the govenment must not interfere in abortion-related issues, or other medical issues, but allow those impacted by the decision to decide for themselves from all medical possibilities in order to allow for the most lives to be saved as is possible. Reform, Conservative and Reconstructionist rabbinic councils in the United States explicitly oppose any government interference in issues relating to abortion and birth control, and most rabbis encourage wider availibility of contraceptive devices and greater abortion access. The Humanistic and Renewal movements lack rabbinic councils that could make statements on such issues, but it could be easily assumed that leaders of such movements would hold similar or even more permissive points of view. Ultimately the highest obligations in Jewish law are to save lives and to seek and "provoke" peace (coincidentally, rodef shalom means to provoke/pursue peace).

While rabbis advise that a woman seek medical and spiritual counsel before deciding to have an abortion, and while rabbis may decide that a given situation does not call for an abortion to be used, they do not retain any power other than that of persuasion in granting or denying access to such procedures. They ask that governments not interfere in medical affairs, that doctors consider whether or not to perform any given abortion based upon the specific situation, and that women in such a position seek to avoid such a situation if possible. Most would encourage the use contraception, and government action to assist in the distribution of such technologies, and the dissemination of information pertaining to them.

6:40 PM  
Blogger Isaac said...

Another issue came to mind after reading some of the posts here. Many have discussed whether or not the woman should have to accept the consequences of her actions. I think it is important to note two things. The first has already been said, that it is not just the consequence of her actions, and not only she has to live with the outcome, but that she may never have been taught about contraception or had access to contraceptive devices or birth-control, and that the masses of uncared-for, homeless children of the world are a problem for all of the rest of us as well. Society at large should work to make abortion less likely to happen in the first place, but allow it, understanding that it is appropriate in at least a few cases. Now, the second point I wanted to make is that there is no talk about whether or not the man involved has any consequences to live with for making the same decision. The answer is no, even though he is just as deserving. This is unfair. Therefore, I would posit that it is wrong to inflict such a burden upon only one of the two involved in making the baby in the first place. What's more, a child should never have to be raised as a punishment, because in the end that's just as much a punishment for the child as it is for the mother.

7:37 PM  
Blogger cat said...

I don't think EVIL is ever NECESSARY. It is a CHOICE. It is not right for a school-girl to have a child at such a young age but neither is it right for her to be engaging in sexual activities that cause her to get pregnant. If she isn't mentally ready to have a child, then neither is she mentally ready to have sex. As for finances, she can always give the child up for adoption. Psychologically, abortion can even be more damaging to the girl than seeing the pregnancy to term. At least a baby could possibly bring joy to the world, but the guilt of murder does not. Anyway, two wrongs don't make a right. Why should the child pay for the sins of its parents? People must take responsibility for the fruits of their actions. Education on safe and responsible sex should be promoted versus "what can you do when the damage has been done" campaigns.

9:19 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

To Cat & all those who commented "she can always give the child up for adoption"

A good idea but in reality, NOT exactly a solution because giving up your child is something I consider highly IMPRACTICAL because if it is not a living and dying kind of situation, I seriously believe no parent in their sane mind would want to give away their own child for adoption.

I for one wouldn't even think about it, I'd rather work my butt off just to make ends meet ...

Try to seek opinions from some 'real' parents ... Ask them if they are willing to give up their children for adoption, in the name of poverty?

Guess I understand the feeling as I am a kids lover (but no pedophile).

12:13 AM  
Blogger goingaway said...

"...NOT exactly a solution because giving up your child is something I consider highly IMPRACTICAL because if it is not a living and dying kind of situation, I seriously believe no parent in their sane mind would want to give away their own child for adoption..."

Have to agree with you on that one. Too many people jump to - give it up for adoption - which yes, it's an option - but still has after effects. Again, you always go back to that general concept a) Abortion is wrong - give it up for adoption and spend the rest of your life "wondering" cause remember - IT'S the woman that must carry this forever or b) Abortion is right - end it and be done with it and spend the rest of your life "wondering" - did I do the right thing and what if.

Also, poverty doesn't jive with abortion in most cases. Just look at all the parents who decide to keep the child and live below poverty standards throughout the world.

1:12 AM  
Blogger Shananigans said...

This is a very complicated issue and I’m glad to see that most of the commentators here have given it serious thought and consideration. In the media all you seem to see are the activists on either side presenting it in black in white terms, the “Pro-Lifers” calling all abortion murder and a sin, and the “Pro-Choice” camp championing a woman’s choice to choose abortion any time to end any pregnancy for any reason she likes. In reality both are wrong and their reasoning severely flawed.

I like the comment you posted from Mike R. It very closely co-insides with my own views. We need to be focusing harder on the causes of unwanted pregnancy in the fist place, not just trying to treat the “symptom” after the damage has been done. Those out there who are rallying hardest against abortion area also trying to keep safer sex information and training away from young people at risk. It’s too bad that these people have such a narrow world view and don’t realize you can’t have it both ways. Preventing abortion shouldn’t be about outlawing it and appointing radical activist right-wing justices to the Supreme Court who might reverse Roe v. Wade. It should be about getting education, choices, and resources out to people so they will not find themselves in a situation where they feel abortion is the best option.

1:50 PM  
Blogger Matt said...

As far as my beliefs on abortion, abortion is murder, and thus it is a sin against Jesus Christ!

A woman has no right whatsoever to abort her child because she is trying to take someone else's life into her own hands. Since we were created by the Almighty God, we have no right to take the life of a child that he created. If a woman of any age gets pregnant by any means, whether she was raped or chose to have sex with a man, it is a sin to abort that child.

Abortion is a sin againt the Almighty God, and this is one of the reasons why God is outraged with the land of the free, the United States of America!

3:27 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

posted by Laurence Simon

Q 1: Do you think it is right to burden say a 15 years old school-going girl with a new life when she is yet to have any economic mean to sustain herself and obviously, most girls of her age are not mentally ready for a family life.

A: Is it right to burden her with a disfiguring STD? Is it right to burden her with a deadly STD like AIDS?

Once upon a time, getting pregnant was the worst that could happen. I find it disturbing that I say "If only it were that way again." This isn't just about pregnancy now.

I think I was pretty clear that abortion was a necessary evil. Even though the best option is abstinence and a next-best option is the availability of non-invasive contraception options like condoms and spermicides, there are times when there is no option but abortion. However, abortion is a brutal and invasive procedure that should be considered a last resort, and the other methods are freely available.

If the other methods aren't freely available, then maybe they should be.

Abortion also doesn't prevent the spread of STDs. Protective measures like condoms help prevent STDs. Not 100%, but enough.

Q 2: Furthermore, is it fair to rob her of her career, aspiration, dream etc., in the name of preserving a life that is yet to be fully developed?

Is it fair to rob her of her career, aspiration, dream, etc. with a deadly STD like AIDS?

Abortion doesn't prevent or cure AIDS. Condoms can help prevent it.

Maybe if the "easy" safety net of abortion were slightly curtained, a benefit might be these reckless kids thinking twice?

Nah. They're reckless kids.

5:24 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

posted by Michael Thomsen

Yes, I do think that it is legitimate to "burden" the 15 year old girl. The child inside of her is a life worthy of the same consideration as she is, and when you compare the two, you realize that the 15 year old's concerns are paltry at best compared to the
baby's. She is losing out on a socio-economic position at best, the child, it's life.

If you want to address the root issues, you have to address some very deep cultural problems in the developing world. First, the tribalism must go. There is no room for such archaic loyalties that have nothing to do with familial or friendship ties in a modern society.

Second,institutions built around a pluralistic respect for the life, liberty and property of all members of society must become the norm.

Third, men must learn to see women as equal, but different rather than as equal in precisely the same ways as men or inferior. As complements, men and women are each half of the overall human equation. Women suffer when viewed as literally equal to men because they are treated as men, and men are often capricious and nasty toward each other.

Society should also work toward a robust adoption system and encourage abstinence because of the very real and deadly consequences of sex with many people today. Not only that, but society must come to respect beforehand the responsibility that comes with sex: taking care of any children that result. Sex should be as much about procreation as it should be pleasure. We can balance that through contraception, but I believe that abortion allows people to keep from being responsible for their actions and it takes a life.

We already see in America many elderly people getting terminated because of health issues. This too is a side-product of abortion. In the end, putting one's future above another's life will ultimately lead to a culture of death.

5:29 PM  
Blogger goingaway said...

Again ... I'm consumed...

I have to comment on something you said Shananigans on ... "We need to be focusing harder on the causes of unwanted pregnancy in the fist place, not just trying to treat the “symptom” after the damage has been done."

You do make a good point but - come on. There is only one reason. Being consumed in the moment along with other factors! I mean, whether a 16 year old experiencing so-called "love" at the first time or a 30 year old whose birth control failed one night. Basically, the "reasons" pregnancy happens is universal no matter HOW you look at it or whatever society you plunk it into. Blame it on drugs, blame it on politics, blame it on religion..etc etc etc (or I could just be from Mars?).

You make a great point. I do find that people who are against...do make a mistake in keeping valid sexual education available. It's like putting an umbrella over reality if you will. Yes, you are correct, "It should be about getting education, choices, and resources out to people so they will not find themselves in a situation where they feel abortion is the best option"

Or, as I like to see it - abortion for a woman would never be "best option" it's a choice based on situation that's unique to the individual. But, that's just me.

8:41 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

by Byron

I think the Government should just stay out of our bedrooms.

It should be up to the individual.

9:18 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

by Bob Stickman, your religious friend

I do not think that abortion is evil, it is simply something that must be done for a young lady to continue her education and properly prepare for a planned pregnancy.

9:24 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

by Ben's Blogs

Thanks La Bona. I believe abortion should not be practised by Christians as it is against the teachings of the Bible. According to the Bible, man becomes a person from the moment of CONCEPTION in the mother's womb (e.g. David, Jesus, Baptist)

I agree with you that unwanted pregnancy is the problem of the society.

It is sad to think of a 15-year old mother, but from the Biblical point of view, commiting "murder" is not the solution either to undo the guilt.

10:07 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

by Jeremy Lin

can't really access the hyperlink ...

and abortion = necessary evil i.e. u condone it to help solve the population problem? Maybe u shouldn't interefere wif nature.

With respect to the developing world, there's always the population problem in such countries and somehow abortion seems right to disable a newborn from enduring a life of slow death through starvation etc.

How we know all these is through improved media coverage and the internet. I mean all these has happened before so why should we bother?

then again, as humans we should not be so cold, you may argue ...so why abortion as a solution?

Yes, proper abortion doesn't really mean killing life, its a fast and effective. But how many proper abortions can be performed?

And, why not look into areas such as education (its have been shown that educated women tend to give rise to less children), contraceptives etc.

Then again, do these people have means to get educated? Do they WANT to receive education (political, social, economic conditions may not permit)?

Its very hard to make certain things go your way (even if it is very desirable and very altruistic of you) as there are many factors beyond your control..

Do u know it has been reported that the US has actually many food surplus but due to some politics and stuff they can't ship them to those developing countries?

This is life.


10:12 AM  
Blogger La Bona said...

by Naveen S.K.

I am from India, therefore bound by very orthodox social system.

The problems such as teen pregnancy exist even here tough. But here the girl is branded as unchaste for life and isnt allowed to live a normal life i.e the society looks down upon remarriage. But yet, I believe that abortion musnt be done with simply out of pity for the poor little child which might suffer a lot more if born.

The poverty in most developing nations is not easy to fathom for most from developed ountries and watch as many documentaries as you might, it will never hit you in the face (though I am from a more affluent background).

So I support what you say, in the interest of the poor soul and also from the point of the mother who I am sure would definitely suffer more trauma with the difficuly of bringing up a child with a faceless and nameless father.

1:21 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

Naveen, thanks for sharing my view.
What do you think may be good to influent the administrators, especially in orthodox places like where you reside at the moment?

3:39 PM  
Blogger Paul (probably - maybe Liz) said...

Pregnancy only happens if you have sex. If you don't have sex, you won't get pregnant.

Once you are pregnant there are three parties involved - the woman, the unborn child and the man. That is the way God made it. The Christian way is to esteem the rights of other people more highly than your own. Evidently you don't believe this relates to the unborn child of a pregnant woman - who is completely dependent upon her, who didn't choose to be brought into existence, and who can't obtain legal representation to protect his or her rights.

7:03 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

by Luke Lewis

You had recently stated that Abortion was a necessary evil.

Understand that there has never been a necessary evil.

The fall of man was not necessry, it wasn't even GOd's plan, but what happened. Man took things into his own hands and then and only then was evil birthed. It wasn't in man to be evil because God had created him perfect and without sin.

Now with respect to abortion one might believe that it would be necessary.

Why would one sin cover another. Unwanted pregnancy is rampant, bt abortion should never be an option. Especially with this 14 year old girl, who already blew it once. THere are consequences for sin. Do you understand that? It is apparent that you believe that one can cover his own sin with another... not true. What is the option you might ask. Well
it is the other a word... adoption. THere are endless opportunities to adopt.

One of my good friends from some years back put her child up for adoption, rather than taking the life herself. It was the wisest and most Godly decision that she ever made.

I am not being harsh with you, but if you claim to represent GOd, which you don't because your dialect clearly contradicts His written word, then you would understand this issue. I will tell you honestly, that you are not hearing from God. God will not contridict Himself.

THere is one thing however that does cover sin. It is the blood of Jesus Christ. It is the blood that was spilt on Mount Calvary, when Jesus went there for our sin. He went for my sin and yours, past present and future.

He offers forgiveness for sins and a new life in HIm.

1:02 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

Luke "your dialect clearly contradicts His written word"

What dialect do you think God speaks ... Sounthern, Cockney or Gaelic? Or are you suggesting Bible is handwritten by God?

"God will not contridict Himself."
God is not contrdicting himself. God merely ask me to clarify certain issues that is either miscommunicated or simply outdated. For example, there was no such toy as computer when He last spoke to someone some 14 centuries ago.

I shall tell you how God was so impressed with His Children's achievement especially in Information Technology ... You know what? God actually think PC is cool!

Stayed tuned for more ...

6:56 PM  
Blogger Said said...

Who is Elia Annel Rosas Gonzalez? Could you contact me please?



9:44 PM  

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WARNING: Blind obsession with prophecy can be perilous or even fatal, reader discretion is advised! Submitted to God as His worldly Activist on a non-exclusive basis since June 15, 2005 1:00 am ET. “La Bona” is a professional name inspired by God; it means "The Righteous", “The Virtuous” or simply “The Good” in Esperanto (a neutral international language). DivineTalk® is an Open Commentary Forum dedicated to God for His Children to engage in dialogue, discourse and debate on laws, standards and values on morality, lifestyle, ethics, business and just about anything else related to their life. God enlightened to have His Words improvised and updated with the prevailing circumstances so that the divine guidance, dogma and policy will evolve with time and stay relevant to His Children in the very era they live in as the way forward. La Bona is a Truth Seeker, Myth Buster, Freedom Fighter, Cyber Activist, Liberal Animal, Good Samaritan, Messiah Wannabe and in order to serve His Children of diverse backgrounds, La Bona is motivated and aim to eventually multitask as Divine Representative, Contemporary Prophet, Celestial Executive, Deity Clairvoyant, Holy Spiritualist ...

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