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Saturday, July 30, 2005

Why Paul’s Christianity is way better … I

I personally always view the universal version of Christianity promoted by Apostle Paul as a much more appealing one as compared to the original version started by Jesus Christ in conjunction with his disciples.

Something deserving a note here … A soldier of God who identified himself as ‘Unchained Slave’ or otherwise ‘Free To Serve’ has been ‘defending’ Christianity (he is Protestant, I think) very extensively a week or two ago. At one point, I mentioned the nullification of Kosher by Paul must be the smartest thing ever took place in the history of religion, ‘Unchained Slave’ corrected me by stating … “Item 3: It was PETER, not Paul, that abrogated (to abolish by authoritative action - nullify) the kosher diet requirements. (Acts 10:9-15)”

whereby I responded …

”Okay, so you said Peter abrogated the Kosher practice in accordance to Book of Act which is written by Luke, a follower of Paul … First of all, I doubt the credibility of the book (I imagine Luke would write in accordance to his boss’s wishes) and from what I gathered, it is pretty confusing as to WHO actually ABROGATED the Kosher practice …

It is said “first by Jesus (Mark 7:19) and then by the early Church (Acts 10:14-16; 1 Cor 10:23-27). In Acts, Peter's vision of unclean foods descending from heaven (10:9-15) functions as a cipher for a further discussion of impartial membership in the church (10:28-29, 34). The change from a restricted to an open diet, then, symbolizes for the disciples of Jesus a change in membership, from an exclusively Jewish group to one which included Gentiles as well (Acts 10:28; 15:23-29)”

What do you make up of the above? Was it abrogated by the Lord, Peter or Paul?

From then on, Mr. ‘Unchained Slave’ has stopped commenting and he even took the pain to delete all of his dozens or so comments posted in the various blogs.

I am not questioning his right to post & delete, I just wonder what is the subliminal message is he sending? Could it be religious faithful simply have no room for error? And upon proven doubtful or wrong, they’d rather withdraw in totality (due to the religious disease APAZFS: All Perfect Absolutely Zero Fault Syndrome?) rather than engage further to find solution, if not improvement? Or worse, the Bible is actually flawed beyond darning?

Appreciate it if he will enlighten us or as usual, we’ll leave it to the Almighty …

Coming back to the why I said Paul’s Christianity is way better? I personally see the abrogation, nullification or ‘disobeying of God’s command’ (as some quarters suggested) on practice or belief like Sabbath, Circumcision, Kosher, Idolating as absolutely sensible … The is a mega topic that won’t fit here, I'd discuss about it at length in the near future.

Stay tuned for more ...

6 Comments:

Blogger postliberal said...

Good to see you read your comments, in thier variedness!

It seems very likely, bearing in mind the kind of religious development of Christianity, that it was St Paul who was at the vanguard of making the fledgling 'Jesus movement' inclusive of gentiles. Perhaps the stories of St Peter's involvement were necessary, given his great stature in the early Church - from the start. This shouldn't just be seen as lying, or as destroying any meaning of the bible, but about forging meaning.

It seems quite normal that you're going to find the Christianity presented to us by St Paul (or at least attributed to him in the letters) as a more acessible one. It's tailored for those of us who don't share his Jewish background. The way he wrestled with this faith, in order to find a way for Jesus to mean something to the then known world, is too complex for me to fully understand. But it's certain not the mere nullifying of divinely-inspired practice and belief. As far as I can tell, he was aiming at trying to retain thier relevence, but make them livable by people of other backgrounds. Find a way to keep thier essence alive, as it were, through a thousand different cultures and stories.

7:30 PM  
Blogger Unchained Slave said...

The apologetics of Unchained Slave:
La Bona,
“From then on, Mr. ‘Unchained Slave’ has stopped commenting and he even took the pain to delete all of his dozens or so comments posted in the various blogs.” And, “Could it be religious faithful simply have no room for error? And upon proven doubtful or wrong, they’d rather withdraw in totality (due to APNES: All Perfect No Error Syndrome?)”

I ‘give answer to’ the second allegation, first. I have never claimed to be either a Bible Scholar or perfect. I am human, and therefore cannot be perfect. I do not believe there is any ‘Religious’ Dogma, Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. That is not without error, having been the constructs of men. I do believe that the Bible is the authoritative, inspired, and complete work, the Word of God.

That statement of belief in the Word of God (the Bible), as stated on my blogs, is the starting point for me to ‘give answer to' the first allegation.
The Authority Of Scripture
I believe that the Holy Scriptures (the Bible) are and shall remain the only source and rule of doctrine, faith and practice. The Bible contains all the necessary truth to lead humanity into salvation. I believe that Christ is present with us in both Word and Sacrament and I decline to determine as binding what the Scripture has left undetermined or to argue about the mysteries impenetrable to human reason. Further, the Bible is God’s Word to us. Human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit, wrote it. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because God inspired it, it is the truth without any mixture of error.
2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 1:13; Psalm 119:105, 160; 12:6; Proverbs 30:5”

The Bible is accurate in all of its teachings: 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 1:13; Psalm 119:105, 160; 12:6; Proverbs 30:5; Matthew 5:18
Psalm 119:160, “The entirety of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.””

“Absolute Moral truth EXISTS and the Bible defines THAT TRUTH. 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 1:13; Psalm 119:105, 160; 12:6; Proverbs 30:5; Matthew 5:18; Philippians 4:8; 1 Samuel 12:24; 1 Corinthians 13:6; Ephesians 5:9:
2 Timothy 3:16-17, “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
John 17:17, “Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.””

ON THIS BLOG - ‘DivineTalk’
La Bona, you have stated, “, “I always say Jesus is Lord!” [‘comments’ in “Monotheism III ... More talks”] and follow it with, “…as for Koran, I don't think this book has anything more to offer than the Bible”

It has been the ‘standing’ view of this blog ‘DivineTalk’ that the Bible is erroneous, inconsistent, non-credible, and irrelevant (this view submitted without exegesis).

The position of this blog is that the Bible is NOT the Word of God and is not an accurate depiction of the Life, Death, Resurrection, and Saving Grace of Jesus Christ. Any ‘defense’ of Christianity or the ministry of Jesus Christ, using the Bible on this blog is therefore irrelevant, moot, and has no place. I still believe the Bible is THE TRUE & INSPIRED WORD OF GOD, but defending it here is moot.


I DO FIND TWO THINGS FASCINATING:
First, is you yourself La Bona,
You state, “…as a secular humanist I should…” [Why Paul’s Christianity is way better … I]. Secular humanism defined is “humanistic philosophy viewed as a non-theistic religion antagonistic to traditional religion” [http://www.m-w.com].
non-theistic: non-“not : other than : reverse of : absence of” + theistic “belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of man and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world”
non-theistic: is therefore defined as, “absence of belief in the existence of God”

By your own ‘hand’, you have written, ‘I do not believe in God’. You also wrote, “I think this alone give the Bible such a bad light in term of credibility for the Lord may never got crucified at all!” [Monotheism III ... More talks]

However, you have written:
“I always say Jesus is Lord!” [‘comments’ in “Monotheism III ... More talks”]
“Christianity is and will remain one of my favorite faiths” [Is Christianity a cult?]

“Submitted to God as His worldly Activist on a non-exclusive basis since June 15, 2005 1:00 am ET. “La Bona” is a professional name inspired by God” & “blessed by God” [‘About Me’ - DivineTalk - sidebar]

If there is NO God, what is Jesus Lord of? If there is NO God, how can you be ‘inspired by’ & ‘blessed by God’? If ‘Jesus is Lord’, what other faith is there besides Christianity?

Second, is your stance “I personally always view the universal version of Christianity promoted by Apostle Paul as a much more appealing one as compared to the original version started by Jesus Christ in conjunction with his disciples.” is diametrically opposed to your own previous claims about the credibility and ministry of Paul the Apostle:
“The book was written by Paul’s follower Luke … Obviously one will write in accordance to the wishes of one’s boss, so where is the credibility?” [Monotheism III ... More talks]
“Roman is written by Paul, again, where is the credibility?” [Monotheism III ... More talks]
“Paul was clever enough to realize that if he had to convert the Gentiles into Christianity, he had to re-invent a new Christianity palatable to their taste and liking.” [Monotheism III ... More talks]

“Christianity promoted by Paul is never the original version of the Lord” [Monotheism III ... More talks]

“Lord’s original message is lost and has been deliberately distorted by its main author, Paul (Saul of Tarsis) who apparently has never met Jesus before and he is obviously politically obliged to the Roman emperor Constantine.” [Bible = The Complete Whole Truth?]

“Paul did is what any good salesman would do. He changed his product to make it more attractive to his western clients.” [Monotheism II: Father of Monotheism]

If ‘Jesus is Lord’ as you previously asserted, then wouldn’t Paul, to ‘re-invent a new Christianity’ be a blasphemer? If Paul ‘deliberately distorted’ the message of Christ, would ‘following’ Christianity ‘promoted by the Apostle Paul’ not only be flat out heresy, but also following a lie? By your own admission, Paul did NOT preach THE GOSPEL of Jesus Christ, and is not credible, how then can ‘Jesus Is Lord’ be TRUE? Would it then be true that Paul is ‘lord’? IF on the other hand, Paul preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as he was called to do, as revealed to him by Divine inspiration as Peter asserts, then wouldn’t both Paul’s credibility, and the unity of the New Testament be restored? IF that happened, would one then have to acknowledge the Bible as it claims to be, the Inspired Word of God?


I find the entire vacillating nature of your own condition, curious to say the least. Add to that the precarious stance of defaming the credibility of, then embracing the teachings of Paul, interesting.

Is it possible, La Bona, that you yourself are conflicted? That you are desperately trying to ‘justify’ and ‘rationalize’ what YOU want while HEARING that God wants something different. Is it possible that you are being called to be a disciple of, and advocate for Jesus Christ, but that conflicts with your wants and desires? You want, and I quote, “La Bona is a Truth Seeker, Myth Buster, Freedom Fighter, Cyber Activist, Liberal Animal, Always Samaritan, Messiah Wannabe and in order to serve His Children of diverse backgrounds, La Bona is motivated and aim to eventually multitask as Divine Representative, Contemporary Prophet, Celestial Executive, Deity Clairvoyant, Holy Spiritualist ...” But, is that what God wants for you?

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is for all, “…the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” that is Not exclusory, that embraces everyone!
Jesus Christ, however; clarified that point when HE said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." That is exclusory.

Jesus made it clear, He does not care if you are Buddhist, Humanist, Muslim, Jew, Catholic, Hindu, Protestant, or Flowbegar…The way to salvation is an open door…But, the only way through that door is to believe in the sacrifice, and forgiveness of Jesus Christ…No other path leads to God.

Yes, La Bona, I have stopped commenting on this blog, because you have made it clear that the Bible has no place here. You state your purpose is to dictate to God who He is, and what His Moral Values are, “God enlightened to have His Words improvised and updated with the prevailing circumstances so that the divine guidance, dogma and policy will evolve with time and stay relevant to His Children in the very era they live in as the way forward.”

While God says, “For I am the Lord, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob. Yet from the days of your fathers, you have gone away from My ordinances And have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you,

And the final, bottom line; "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them."

May, “The Lord bless you and keep you; The Lord make His face shine upon you, And be gracious to you; The Lord lift up His countenance upon you, And give you peace.

8:15 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

Sorry folks, I have to break a news on an ongoing injustice ... Persecution of an ex-Muslim: Sky Kingdom in the name of religion!

I am glad 'Unchained Slave' has responded, way to go. Trust me, I am basically Lord-friendly. I am just checking it out if thinking out of the box is possible ... So far, I am getting a mixed signal.

We'd continue to talk about it in "Why Paul’s Christianity is way better … II"

"Unchained Slave', shower me with your frustartion, if you have more ....

12:21 PM  
Blogger Unchained Slave said...

It appears La Bona has edited the Post: "Why Paul’s Christianity is way better … I" Changing "APNES: All Perfect No Error Syndrome" to "APAZFS: All Perfect Absolutely Zero Fault Syndrome". I cannot edit my comment to reflect the change without deleting and reposting - sorry.

I am not frustrated La Bona, I am just curiously awaiting for your 'apologetics'...

2:32 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

Actually, I feel 'APAZFS' is still inappropriate, too long ... Maybe I should just shorten it to 'AZFS: Absolutely Zero Fault Syndrome'... This basically me, I believe in evolving interpretations.

Rest assured,I'd be back to talk about it ... Gotta get couple of things done now, till then.

4:13 PM  
Blogger Maryellen said...

I believe the Bible is the living Word of God and the ultimate authority of my faith, and my life.
I do not see a difference between Pauls "religion" and Jesus's. but if i have to reconcile a certain teaching, Jesus is the ultimate authority, being himself God.

4:47 PM  

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WARNING: Blind obsession with prophecy can be perilous or even fatal, reader discretion is advised! Submitted to God as His worldly Activist on a non-exclusive basis since June 15, 2005 1:00 am ET. “La Bona” is a professional name inspired by God; it means "The Righteous", “The Virtuous” or simply “The Good” in Esperanto (a neutral international language). DivineTalk® is an Open Commentary Forum dedicated to God for His Children to engage in dialogue, discourse and debate on laws, standards and values on morality, lifestyle, ethics, business and just about anything else related to their life. God enlightened to have His Words improvised and updated with the prevailing circumstances so that the divine guidance, dogma and policy will evolve with time and stay relevant to His Children in the very era they live in as the way forward. La Bona is a Truth Seeker, Myth Buster, Freedom Fighter, Cyber Activist, Liberal Animal, Good Samaritan, Messiah Wannabe and in order to serve His Children of diverse backgrounds, La Bona is motivated and aim to eventually multitask as Divine Representative, Contemporary Prophet, Celestial Executive, Deity Clairvoyant, Holy Spiritualist ...

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