<body><script type="text/javascript"> function setAttributeOnload(object, attribute, val) { if(window.addEventListener) { window.addEventListener('load', function(){ object[attribute] = val; }, false); } else { window.attachEvent('onload', function(){ object[attribute] = val; }); } } </script> <div id="navbar-iframe-container"></div> <script type="text/javascript" src="https://apis.google.com/js/plusone.js"></script> <script type="text/javascript"> gapi.load("gapi.iframes:gapi.iframes.style.bubble", function() { if (gapi.iframes && gapi.iframes.getContext) { gapi.iframes.getContext().openChild({ url: 'https://www.blogger.com/navbar.g?targetBlogID\x3d13721725\x26blogName\x3dDivineTalk+...+God+inspired+Commentar...\x26publishMode\x3dPUBLISH_MODE_BLOGSPOT\x26navbarType\x3dSILVER\x26layoutType\x3dCLASSIC\x26searchRoot\x3dhttp://divinetalk.blogspot.com/search\x26blogLocale\x3den_US\x26v\x3d2\x26homepageUrl\x3dhttp://divinetalk.blogspot.com/\x26vt\x3d3446630450564529066', where: document.getElementById("navbar-iframe-container"), id: "navbar-iframe" }); } }); </script>

Tuesday, August 09, 2005

Male Circumcision II

Let's take a harder look ...

Chris P. commented “Male circumcision, I have no problem with as God actually commanded it

Question: If it is commanded by God, why are Christians excempted?
Question for Jews: Why boys need a covenant while girls are exempted?


Circumcision: Law, Origin, Question & Conclusion

by Free-Minds.Org

'Have you circumcised your son?'

This is the first question Sunni, Shia, some Christian, and Jewish followers will ask when they hear that a newborn male has come into this world …

What slips our minds and what many of us don’t take notice of is WHY are we circumcising our young sons (and in some cases girls also) immediately and without question?

This short paper will discuss the origins of ‘circumcision’ as a religious requirement and will hopefully give the reader better understanding to make the right choice for his/her son.

The only source of Law

In Islam, it is the words of GOD and His messenger as contained in the Quran that provide the law for us …

“And We have sent down to you the book with truth, authenticating what is present of the book and superceding it. So judge between them by what GOD Has sent down and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth…” (5:48)

Also see (6:114, 6:19, 7:52, 16:89, 5:48, 4:105)

In examining the 114 chapters of the book, which overrides and supercedes all previous laws and scriptures, we do not find any mention or requirement to circumcise our sons (let alone circumcising girls which is carried out in some parts of North Africa).

In-fact, when GOD speaks of His creation, He speaks of it as being ‘perfected’:

"He is the One who PERFECTED everything He created, and started the creation of the human from clay." (32/7)

Origins of Circumcision

The origins of circumcision are found to have begun in the Jewish Bible in relation to prophet Abraham’s covenant with GOD, and was then passed along to some among the Christian faith, as well as the Sunnis and Shia who derived much of their religion and writings from the old Jewish traditions and Christian teachings …

Here is the origin of circumcision found in the ‘Covenant of Circumcision’ from the Bible.

[Gen 17:14.13] Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant." This is the covenant of circumcision.

Also the following:

[Gen 17:24.16] Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.

This story is replicated in the Sunni hadith theology. The Sunnis say Abraham circumcised himself with a small axe.

[Gen 17:25.18] And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin

And here is a particularly cultish ritual:

Exod 4:25.11] Then Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin, and touched Moses' feet with it, and said, "Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me!"

The Sunnis and Shia follow in the footsteps of these tales, whereby in some communities, the circumcision of a male child is cause for much happiness, complete with feasting and flocking together in some communities. Cults have been around for a long time.

Questions/Clarifications

Can’t we take our law from the Jewish Bible?

This has been a recurring question when Sunni or Shia followers find no reference to circumcision in the Quran …

The ANSWER is:

Will you vouch before GOD that all the stories in the Jewish Bible are true? (e.g. allowing stoning of adulterers, allowing stoning of sons and daughters who are disobedient, allowing a rapist to pay a few shekels to the parents of a girl and marry her, claiming that Lot was drunk and had illicit sex with his daughters, etc…). If you reject all the claims in brackets, then why do you accept Abraham’s story of circumcision?

Will you also observe the Sabbath and forbid eating the fat of animals as decreed for the Jews in their Bible? If not, then why would you accept to follow the covenant of circumcision?

Do you accept that the Quran ‘authenticates’ and ‘supercedes’ all previous scriptures (5:48) and is thus the ONLY source for our law? If not, then why do continue calling yourself a ‘Muslim/Submitter’?

Conclusion

Since circumcision has no basis in the laws of GOD, then (as with all matters in life) it is left upto the individual to decide what is best for his/her child with no fear of ‘retribution’ for deciding not to do so (this is similar to the headscarf which some women wear out of fear that it is a ‘command’ from GOD…as long as you know that it is NOT a command from GOD, then the woman is free to wear it or disregard it as she sees fit).

The next time someone asks you about circumcision, remember to explain to them what you now know as we should not let people attribute to GOD a law that He himself has not authorized ...

And remember: Ignorance is of course the most prized possession of any cult.

Next ... Proposed Bill To Ban Male Circumcision: The Clash of Gender, Religion, and the Protection of Children.And most important of all, a God inspired breakthrough in circumcision (for those we insist on doing it eventhough it is not commanded by God)!

5 Comments:

Blogger Pretty Woman said...

i did some reading on the topic, and cicumcision for girls is very much like it is for boys, both are a norm in places with circumcision culture. it is quite obvious the christians have broken away from the norm without any biblical support, i haven't found one.

10:46 AM  
Blogger La Bona said...

Tikvah Batyah said...

I've never heard of a female being circumsized - this is sad. To my knowledge the Jewish faith ONLY circumsizes boys as G-d commanded. To cause such irreparable damage would be against the wishes of our Creator I believe.

Bests, Tikvah Batyah

12:45 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

Jill said...

I'll stick to the precise questions that you asked:

1. You asked: Do you think Female Circumcision which involve the removal of the entire clitoris and render a girl unable to experience orgasm acceptable?

No, I do not think this practice is acceptable.

I will say that as a Jew who's been exposed to Jews in a variety of settings and who observe on all ends of the extremes and in between, I've never heard of anyone suggesting or supporting or performing or considering the performing of female circumsion.

All new to me.

2. You wrote: It is said God actually never commanded such a ‘covenant’ …

Well - you have some reasonable commentary on this already. Brit mila is the standard for boys. A lot of Jews aren't interested in doing it to their sons for a variety of reasons - personal, political, religious, sexual.

It's a personal choice as far as I'm concerned. My sons are circumsized. If I weren't Jewish, they'd probably still be circumsized. That's just me and my choice. I'm not going to judge anyone on this issue. It's too personal, in my opinion.

Hope that helps and thanks again for asking my opinion.

12:46 PM  
Blogger La Bona said...

Turbatio said...

I think the practice of female circumcision is utterly disgusting. There is no medical benefit, and it robs women of any chance of sexual fulfilment. The mentality behind it seems to be just like that involved in branding cattle. To think it is performed on human beings repels me.

There is no history nor precedent of it in Judaism where, as been noted by others above, only males are expected to undergo the surgery as a sign of the covenant between God and Israel. As for it being a semitic tradition, there are some semitic peoples who have historically practiced it, others who have not. My own view is that, in the time of the patriarchs, circumcision of males was not as widespread as you might like to think, hence the Biblical references to non-Israelites as 'the uncircumcised'. Also, in one passage of Scripture, soldiers were instructed to collect the penises of the enemy after a battle in order to assess the slaughter: clearly, any uncircumcised male genitals showed how many non-Israelites had been killed.

As for Copts, Catholics and Protestants, circumcision would not be performed with any religious significance but probably for cultural or health reasons. Americans, for example, are far more commonly circumcised as children than are Europeans; this is nothing to do with what they believe; purely, I should think, a reflection of usual medical practice or social opinion.

2:49 PM  
Blogger Baghdad said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:20 AM  

Post a Comment

<< Home

Should male circumcision be outlawed?
Yes
No
Not Sure
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com
Is Bible the complete revelation and the whole truth from God?
Yes
No
Not Sure
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com
Is Harry Potter bad for kids?
Yes
No
Not Sure
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com
Are Santa Claus & Mickey Mouse bad for kids?
Yes
No
Not Sure
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com
Do pharmacists have the rights to refuse contraceptive prescriptions?
Yes
No
Not Sure
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com
Abortion: Where do you stand?
Pro-Life
Pro-Choice
Depend on the Circumstances
No Sure
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com
When does human personhood begin?
It happens at conception (the most common pro-life position)
It happens when blood first appears (a new interpretation based on the Bible)
It happens later in pregnancy (the most common pro-choice position)
It happens at 14 or 22 weeks gestation (two novel arguments)
It happens during childbirth (the traditional Jewish position)
Not Sure
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com
Who are Children of God?
All Jews (regardless of philosophy & lifestyle)
Devout & Orthodox Jews Only
All Christians (regardless of philosophy & lifestyle)
Born Again Christians Only
All Muslims (regardless of philosophy & lifestyle)
Devout & Fundamentalist Muslims Only
All faithful of Semitic religions only (Semitic Pluralism)
All Buddhists (regardless of philosophy & lifestyle)
All Hindus (regardless of philosophy & lifestyle)
All faithful regardless of religion (Universal Pluralism)
All righteous people excluding Homosexuals
All righteous people including Homosexuals
Any Tom, Dick & Harry including Criminals
Not Children but we are all God's Slaves
Not Sure
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com
Are people born Gay?
Aboslutely Yes!
Very likely Yes
Abosolutely Not!
Very likely Not
Not Sure
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com
My Photo
Name:
Location: God Inspired, Consensus Driven

WARNING: Blind obsession with prophecy can be perilous or even fatal, reader discretion is advised! Submitted to God as His worldly Activist on a non-exclusive basis since June 15, 2005 1:00 am ET. “La Bona” is a professional name inspired by God; it means "The Righteous", “The Virtuous” or simply “The Good” in Esperanto (a neutral international language). DivineTalk® is an Open Commentary Forum dedicated to God for His Children to engage in dialogue, discourse and debate on laws, standards and values on morality, lifestyle, ethics, business and just about anything else related to their life. God enlightened to have His Words improvised and updated with the prevailing circumstances so that the divine guidance, dogma and policy will evolve with time and stay relevant to His Children in the very era they live in as the way forward. La Bona is a Truth Seeker, Myth Buster, Freedom Fighter, Cyber Activist, Liberal Animal, Good Samaritan, Messiah Wannabe and in order to serve His Children of diverse backgrounds, La Bona is motivated and aim to eventually multitask as Divine Representative, Contemporary Prophet, Celestial Executive, Deity Clairvoyant, Holy Spiritualist ...

  • Write To Me
  • Submit A Story
  • Link To Me
  • Therapeutic Rants
  • Unchained Slave
  • Grumble Grouch
  • In Medias Res
  • Ha'emet: Truth and Peace
  • Martini Glasses
  • Your Sweet Bippy
  • Nova Vane
  • A Concerned Scientist
  • Knitting In Public
  • Reality Hole
  • Off My Blog
  • Chaos-In-Motion
  • Deliberate Chaos
  • The Eagle's Nest
  • To Everything a Time
  • Politics 101
  • Crown Heights; the View From Inside
  • Technorati Profile