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Friday, September 30, 2005

Religious evolution in the making?

I stumbled across a series of interesting debate on science and religion conducted by a few contemporary intellectuals and amazingly, some of them are actually Muslims!

For their efforts, I say Bravo.

They started off talking about the need to reform religion, particularly Islam and as of today, their talk has advanced to the extend that God is practically science itself!

Both Darwin and Einstein better take note of the latest development so as to stay relevent to evolving world and I am sure God is very proud of them!

Here it goes: In the beginning ...

Mid-East religious dogma inapplicable to Asean

By Dr Syed Alwi Ahmad

I refer to the letter titled Islamic discourse - respect knowledge specialisation. The writer has obviously misunderstood the thrust of my previous writings. The issue before us here is the societal pressure to conform as reflected in contemporary socio-political discourse.

Can we - or should we - allow the freedom of apostasy to Muslims ? I say ‘yes’ because I reject any claim that society has a moral duty to impose its unproven religious beliefs on individuals.

Secondly, the writer herself is practicing double standards when it comes to knowledge specialisation. Will Muslim Malaysians respect the knowledge specialisation of biologists when they say that humans were evolved and not specially created?

Are you prepared to respect the consensus of scientists the world over? I think not. Besides, it is far from clear that knowledge specialisation in Islam from the Middle Eastern countries is in any way applicable to contemporary Asean.

Will Malaysia respect the consensus of Asean when it comes to matters pertaining to the interpretation of Islam? Once again, I have my doubts. To me, acknowledging the controversial nature of the Hudud is far from sufficient.

One must also have a mature and well-developed attitude towards dogma which will not damage the fabric of the multi-religious society not just in Malaysia but also throughout Asean.

On this point, I wish to add that many Malaysians have now reached the conclusion that the time has come for a new social contract. Hiding behind the social contract of 1957 will not do anymore. A new contract is needed.

One which will compensate for the tyranny of the majority. I am not only prepared to say that Islam needs a re-interpretation, but I am also prepared to review the 1957 social contract. Both are needed in view of recent events.

I have no doubts whatsoever that Islam needs a re-interpretation. One which reflects our values of democracy, human rights and the rule of law. We cannot return to the days of the Abbasid Caliphate.

And in reply to the letter Let Islam explain the world, not the reverse, I would like to say that the Quran is not a science textbook. All the so-called ‘miracles of science’ in the Quran revolve around suitable interpretations of vague verses - after the scientific discoveries were made.

How many scientific facts were predicted based on Quranic verses? None. They became scientific miracles of Islam only via an elastic massage of suitable vague, equivocal verses and then only after the fact. Not outright predictions.

In the business of science, material evidence is much sought after. We do not accept certain theories precisely because of a lack of evidence. In the case of Darwin's evolutionary theory, the evidence is plenty.

There are many undergraduate and graduate texts - as well as popular writings - that deal with the evidence for evolution. While there has been controversy ie, the Piltdown Man, the accepted rigorous evidence for evolution far exceeds that for special creation.

The theory of evolution is based on tons of rigorous biological facts. Unfortunately, there has been some religious writers who make all sorts of attacks on evolutionary theory because it debunks the creation hypothesis.

Again, there are many books on evolution that specifically address the accusations thrown at evolutionary science by writers such as Harun Yahya and others. Their ideas have been proven wrong by science. I say it again - the ideas of people like Harun Yahya have been proven wrong and you can read about it in many books.
Now where does that leave Islam? To me all religions are good provided we take them with a pinch of salt. When one accepts the positive, universal values of organised religion, that is fine.

Trouble begins when you accept religious dogma as the unquestionable absolute truth. Worse still, when you try to impose your personal faith in that dogma on others. That’s double trouble!

As for Hudud and apostasy, well, in Asean we do not subscribe to such values. We do not stone animals to death for any reason, much less people for the ‘crime’ of adultery. Isn't divorce more humane?

But we are a democracy. One is free to entice voters with the rewards of paradise in exchange for the Hudud. But of course, now we know what the electorate wants. Too bad for PAS.

The point is that society evolves. We are not a Middle Eastern, 10th century society. We are a multi-religious, cosmopolitan 21st century Asean society. We are industrialised. We are not agricultural anymore. Our social mores and values have changed.

When that happens, it is only fair to ask for a re-interpretation of the various aspects of Islam. We subscribe to notions of human rights, democracy and the rule of law. Consequently our interpretation of Islam must reflect these. I rest my case. Truth is clear from falsehood.

I am impressed with what Dr. Ahmad has mentioned.

Guess camels are an excellent novelty but as a mode of transportation in the 21st century?

More to come ... God equal to E=MC2?

Bible is a story book?

An email comment related to 'Is Bible The Complete Whole Truth?' from Reyna

"I believe that the bible is a story and that's all it is.

We all tell stories. What happens is that we either embellish to make it sound more exciting, or we forget little bits and pieces. From there, the person who received it secondhand will in turn tell the third person, again with some deviation, and as the old shampoo commercial went, "And they tell two friends, and they tell two friends, and so on, and so on, and so on..."

It's the whole "Broken Telephone" issue. How many of us played this as children? How many times did the last person say EXACTLY what the first person said? Rarely.

This, my friends, is the case of the bible.

Oh, and by the way, isn't it a bit suspicious that there are SIXTEEN VERSIONS of the bible? Oh, and let's not forget King James' version. Why did he write his own version? It was to cater to his needs and conveniences.

IF the bible were true, for those who really have read it, God would be a vicious, vindictive asshole to anyone who didn't worship, follow, honour him.

... sounds like a serious egomaniacal problem to me. Who would want a god like that?"

I'd like to reserve my comment on the allegation that the holy books are nothing but pure fictions for now ...

While I have always maintained books are static materials created by man and that books are just another medium of communications (very effective and possibly the most widely used) but it is just that ... an information/entertainment tool.

If words contained in Bible are indeed true revelations of God, then the Bible must be a medium of convenience for God to disseminate His Message once upon a time but without contemporary review and updating, I am afraid those words are most probably only good during the very era when it was revealed and some of them must be either already outdated or no longer applicable now.

See, God created the world to be an evolving entity and He lead us into discovering the amazing fact known as 'evolution'. As such, I am convinced He has always wanted us to use our heads to make the best out of the universe from time to time ... Most significant of all, why would He gave us an ultra smart gadget called 'brain' (compared ours to other animals) if it is His very intention that we should lead a life of a non-thinking zombie?

Task to be accomplished: Ask His Almighty if we should abuse our brains on science and technology? Remember, they once said aeroplane is against God's will and that God never created us to fly!

Friday, September 23, 2005

Evolution Crossfire (10)

Earth is the center of the universe ...

"The earth is fixed at (or near) the center of the universe. The sun and other planets travel around it. That is what the Bible plainly says [Ps. 93:1, Ps. 19:1-6, Joshua 10:12-14] and what the evidence indicates."

commented by Willis, Tom, 2000 (Mar/Apr). The Laws of Cause and Effect, and the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics have been invalidated by modern science, Part 2. CSA News 17(2): 1-2.

  1. 1. This argument opens the accuracy of the Bible up to question just as much as it questions modern astronomy and physics. To those who hold reason and the scientific method to be more powerful explanatory tools than faith and divine revelation, this claim would be interpreted as an example of the fallability of the Bible.
  2. 2. It is not true: in these bible passages (Ps. 93:1, Ps. 19:1-6, Joshua 10:12-14) it is said that the sun turns around the earth. It speaks about the sun stopping, and things going from place to place in the sky, and some world being fixed, but not that explicit as "the sun going around the earth".

Thursday, September 22, 2005

Evolution Crossfire (9)

God & Death

"If evolution is true, then God is directly responsible for death. God pronounced His original creation "very good" (Gen. 2:1), which implies that God is sadistic, taking pleasure in watching the suffering and dying. A God of grace and mercy would not use the principle of survival of the fittest."

commented by
1. Morris, Henry M., 2000 (June). The vital importance of believing in recent creation. Back to Genesis 138: a-c.
2. Morris, John D., 2001 (Jan.). What could the God of scripture call "very good"? Back to Genesis 145: d.


If the Bible is a reliable record of God's actions and stated opinions, God doesn't seem to have a problem with mass murder and genocide, up to and including wiping out all living things other than those which could fit into Noah's big boat.

Would a "God of grace and mercy" do that?

This is intriguing ...

Tuesday, September 20, 2005

Evolution Crossfire (8)

Evolution & God ...

"Evolution's materialism or methodological naturalism denies a role for God. "Methodological naturalism asks us for the sake of science to pretend that the material world is all there is." [Dembski, 1998] .. "

commented by Johnson, Phillip E., 1999 (16 Aug.). The church of Darwin. Wall Street Journal, (http://www.arn.org/docs/johnson/chofdarwin.htm).


If God exists and is responsible for the existence of life on this planet, evolution merely tells us the method by which He did it.

Evolution, as a scientific theory, has nothing to say about God's existence, non-existence, sovereignty, transcendence, et cetera.

See ... Evolution is not anti-God.

Regardless, let me confirm once again, Darwin and I are diehard fans of His Almighty ...

God is simply the Best!

Monday, September 19, 2005

Evolution Crossfire (7)

Evolution & Religion ...

"Evolution doesn't explain religion."

  1. 1. Social structuring and cooperation provided the frameworks for religion. By creating religions, groups could find ways to better enforce social mores and pass on traditions that benefited the group, such as cooking specific herbs to make remedies (as evidenced by "medicine men" in Native American cultures).
  2. 2. Evolution does not need to explain religion. As stated above, religion came about as a result of social structuring and early, primitive man's need to explain the unexplainable, such as, "Who am I?", and "Why am I here?", along with why things happen (drought, famine, disease, good crop seasons, floods). Also, once established, religion provided a hierarchy in the society, which in turn gave power to those who provided these answers. Once begun, it was left to expand and grow unfettered by modern skepticism. As with the early Christian church, religion ruled early society. Religion is purely social and has nothing to do with evolution.
  3. Natural selection has been applied conjecturally to the world of ideas -- the result being known as memetics. Clearly, any religion which instructed its followers not to proselytize and not to have children will die out, as in the case of the Shakers. Many of the most successful religions (Catholicism; Mormonism in the American West) encourage followers to have children and raise them in the church; others (Evangelical Protestantism) encourage proselytization and missionary work. Religious belief has been analogized to a cultural gene or virus, as by Richard Dawkins and Gary Cziko

Friday, September 16, 2005

Evolution Crossfire (6)

Evolution is immoral ...

"Since evolution began to be taught in public schools, crime rates and other social ills have increased."

commented by
1. Anonymous, Why are our kids killing each other? (http://www.dentalfriends.net/cool/gunbook.htm)
2. Pehrson, Marnie, Jesus, New Math, and The 21st Century (http://www.mainstreetmom.com/spirit/jesus.htm)


  1. The two sources given for this claim actually cite early 1960s court decisions related to the teaching of religion, or prayer, in public schools, not the much earlier introduction of biological evolution into primary school textbooks. In any case, this is an example of a spurious correlation. Earlier events (the critical variables) resulted in the teaching of evolution in primary schools, and may also have resulted in a contemporaneous change in reported crime rates. Significant research using early 19th century sources would be required to determine if any such correlation was valid. Such research would have to include the caveat that the collection of complete and accurate crime statistics is a recent (mid-20th century) social priority.
  2. Crime has been with us far longer than the Theory of Evolution. The 19th and 20th centuries were marked by increased urbanization. Crime statistics were better tracked. A correlation of crime rates to the teaching of evolution has not been demonstrated.
    Even if such a correlation existed, that would not mean that crime has increased as a direct result of the Theory of Evolution.
  3. Even if crime had increased as a direct result of the Theory of Evolution, it does not follow that evolution is therefore false. It may have beneficial or undesirable sociological effects, but those effects say nothing about the truth or falsity of the theory.

Tuesday, September 13, 2005

Wanted: Aspiring Martyrs

This is no joke … The turbaned fanatics are seeking morons who yearn to go heaven ... emmm ... to have sex with a team of 72 virgins!

Recruitment of potential suicide bombers, which has generally been shrouded in silence and secrecy, appears to be going more public.

An Iranian publication recently carried an advertisement calling for applications from aspiring "martyrdom seekers".

The advertisement calls for men and women to enlist with the "Lovers of Martyrdom Garrison" and promises those who are picked that they will be given "specific and specialized training". The aim it seems is "to achieve all-round readiness against the enemies of Islam and the sacred Islamic republic and to protect the foundations of Islam". To this end, "a martyrdom-seeking division" would be set up for each province in the country.

All that aspiring candidates to the "Lovers of Martyrdom Garrison" need to submit are two photographs of themselves, a copy of their identity cards, and a filled-in application form. The advertisement even provides an address – PO Box 16535-664, Tehran – where aspiring candidates to the "Lovers of Martyrdom Garrison" should forward their application forms.

The publication in which the advertisement appeared is one that is produced by an institute run by one of Iran's most conservative and radical clerics, Ayatollah Mazbah Yazdi, believed to be a spiritual advisor of Iran's new president, Mahmud Ahmedinejad, who, like its proponents, has described suicide operations or "martyrdom operations" in glowing terms. In a speech delivered some days after his election and broadcast on Iranian television, Ahmedinejad said: "Is there art that is more beautiful, more divine and more eternal than the art of martyrdom? A nation with martyrdom knows no captivity. Those who wish to undermine this principle undermine the foundations of our independence and national security. They undermine the foundation of our eternity."

This is not the first time that recruitment of volunteers for suicide operations has been done publicly and application forms for registration of aspiring bombers distributed openly in Iran. A year ago, tens of thousands of registration forms were distributed at local Islamic universities to aspiring martyrdom seekers. This distribution of registration forms was preceded by speeches in mosques where calls were made to young men and women to register.

The application form for "Preliminary Registration for Martyrdom Operations" requires the applicant to provide name, age, address and contact details. It also requires the applicant to affirm his "preparedness for carrying out martyrdom operations" and gives a choice of three targets: "occupiers of the Islamic holy sites" (referring to the US occupation of Najaf, Karbala and other places in Iraq), "occupiers of Jerusalem" (referring to Israel), and Salman Rushdie, the author of Satanic Verses against whom Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a fatwa or legal judgment for death in 1989 ... More at Asia Times

Poor Rushdie ... It looks like the turbaned fanatics will never forget your head!

Monday, September 12, 2005

Shariah … RIP!

Breaking News!

RIP To Shariah Law!

McGuinty said ‘F@#$ Off’ to Shariah!

By Toronto24Hours

Ontario will not become the first Western jurisdiction to allow the use of a set of centuries-old religious rules called Shariah law to settle Muslim family disputes.

In a telephone interview with The Canadian Press, Premier Dalton McGuinty announced Sunday his government would move to outlaw all existing religious tribunals under Ontario's Arbitration Act.

"I've come to the conclusion that the debate has gone on long enough," he said. "There will be one law for all Ontarians."

More at McGuinty shoots down Shariah law

The ban on religious laws also affect Jews

McGuinty ditches all religious laws

Jewish groups upset after McGuinty decides to scrap faith-based arbitration

TORONTO (CP) - Jewish groups want a meeting with Premier Dalton McGuinty after his surprise announcement that Ontario will outlaw all religious arbitration to settle family law disputes.

McGuinty told The Canadian Press on Sunday that Ontario would not allow a centuries-old set of Muslim rules known as Shariah law to be used to settle family cases through arbitration.

But McGuinty caught everyone off guard when he also announced he would introduce legislation to end other faith-based arbitration, which has been allowed since 1991.

Much more here …

One notch up for civilization of mankind? Or perhaps 5 Holy Points for McGuinty to go Heaven?

Either way ... Bravo, McGuinty. I say just ignore the Jewish buggers, there should be only one law ... Without Prejudice!

Next ... I think I should demand McGuinty to outlaw circumcision for boys and infants!

Sunday, September 11, 2005

Shariah or no Shariah?

Should we allow the controversial Shariah Law to be implemented (I mean in places where its laws are yet to be contaminated affected)?

It really depends on whom you ask ...

If you ask the Muslim Extremists ie. Taliban, Jihadis, Beheadis, Hijabis etc ...

YES is obviously the only answer. Simple, unambiguous and straightforward ... No second thought.

And if you ask the Moderate Muslims like some of the famous politicians of the Islamic world such as Dr. Mahathir and Gen Musharaf, the answer can be as complex as rocket science.

Guess they won't have an answer not until due consideration is given to all the Three Material Truth: Power, Money and Fame.

Lastly, if you were to ask Liberal (or Modern) Muslims like Irshad Manji (one of my dream girl) or Salman Rushdie (his head is still being hunted by the Grand Ayatollah for writing a novel called 'Satanic Verses'!) ...

Rest assured this will be their answer:

F@#$ The Nonsense!

Saturday, September 10, 2005

Outrage over Islamic Law

The fanatics tried again ... This time, they tried to F%@# the law of Canada!

Clash Of Civilization?

Picture: A woman protestor debate with Mubin Sheikh, a defender of Islamic law, at a rally in Toronto on Thursday. About 300 people gathered to protest billed as a global champaign to discourage Ontario from permitting the legal use of Sharia law, religious rules critics considered an affront to human rights.

Hundreds protest Shariah
By CP and Sun Media

Angry demonstrators likened the premier of Ontario to Afghanistan’s extremist Taliban leaders Thursday as they urged Dalton McGuinty to dismiss the idea of allowing the use of Shariah law to settle family disputes.

About 300 people gathered outside the Ontario legislature for a protest billed as a global campaign to discourage the province from becoming the first Western jurisdiction to permit the use of religious rules critics consider an affront to human rights.

Speaker after speaker told the crowd McGuinty was naive to suggest that women’s rights would not be trampled if Ontario allowed the controversial Shariah principles to be used to settle Muslim divorces, custody fights and inheritance disputes.

“These words are not coming from Ayatollahs (or) from Taliban leaders,” Iranian refugee Mahmoud Ahmandi told the crowd.

“It’s coming from the leader of Ontario’s government; shame on you,” he said as the protesters chanted “shame, shame.”

That sentiment was echoed by Homa Arjomand, who helped to co-ordinate a series of protests Thursday across Canada and Europe comprised of members of 100 different women’s and human rights groups.

“Either he (McGuinty) is naive, or he thinks people are stupid,” Arjomand said. “Mr. McGuinty, don’t tell me that all these 100 organizations are all a bunch of man-hating criminals who do nothing but make a fuss over an imaginary threat.”

Amanda Dale of the YWCA warned McGuinty there would be a political price to pay if his government agrees to include Shariah law in the province’s Arbitration Act, as recommended in a report last year by former attorney general Marion Boyd.

“I have one very important message for the premier of Ontario: we know the women’s vote got you in,” Dale said. “It can also get you out.”

Ontario’s flirtations with Shariah had critics across Canada and around the world standing up in protest.

In Montreal, about 100 people turned out in the rain to protest against the use of Shariah law in Ontario. Quebec has passed a law against the use of Muslim tribunals in the province.

Elahe Chokrai-Machouf, head of the Association of Iranian Women in Montreal, said Shariah law hurts the rights of women.

“We came here with the hope of living in a free and democratic and secular country,” Chokrai-Machouf said.

Similar rallies were scheduled for Ottawa and Victoria, and Arjomand said smaller protests were held earlier Thursday in London, Amsterdam, Paris and Dusseldorf, Germany, where about 25 protesters picketed outside the Canadian consulate.

Since December, the Liberal government has been sitting on Boyd’s report, which recommends that the province allow and regulate Shariah religious arbitrations in much the same way it does existing Catholic and Jewish tribunals.

Earlier this week, McGuinty said Attorney General Michael Bryant was still reviewing the report on Shariah and would make his recommendations at some point in the future.

Bryant’s office issued a statement promising “there will be no binding family arbitration in Ontario that uses a set of rules or laws that discriminate against women.”

More at 24Hours.ca

Re: "Either he (McGuinty) is naive, or he thinks people are stupid”

No, the premier (McGuinty) is neither naive nor stupid, how can he rised to become head of the most influential province of Canada if he is a fool. It's all politics.

My guess is he wanted to show the Muslim community that his government do care about them ... knowing very well such absurdity (Shariah Law) will be thrown out by the people or when it is tabled for general consensus!

Come to think of it, I might as well volunteer to represent the 'circumcised' community and demand the premier to legitimize the Abrahamic Covenant. Yes, boys and girls, let's all go foreskinless and clitorisless!

Thursday, September 08, 2005

A Peace Message

I am obliged to post this message from a ‘Peace Activist’.

AN OPEN LETTER TO MUSLIMS ONLY (this I disagree ... it should be for all)
(Read And Circulate Message For Peace)

Dear Muslim Brothers and Sisters,

God forbid if any one of our near one and dear one is killed then the killer is evil, a beast and what not and should get penalty but if one among us kills anybody then he is not evil and we start lying, denying or even justifying the killing.... double standards?

Being Muslims, many of our brothers and sisters are not working for peace. They are misguided, mistaken and spreading the virus of hatred and revenge through telling deliberate lies, disinformation and false accusations, which is resulting in death and miseries for number of innocent people living around the world at the hands of merciless KILLER MUSLIMS and also
bringing bad name to MOHAMMED (PBUH) who never killed anyone in his life time.

Instead of teaching about Good & Evil, certain Radical Muslim Clerics are only "Trading in Religion". They teach us about accusing, abusing and killing the non-Muslims. They try to hypnotize us to Hate and Kill the non-Muslims and brethren of other sects or be killed and without using any common sense, we readily believe in whatever is being said by these Hate
Mongers. Actually, they are "Agents of Satan" who is paying them heavily and in return they are cutting at the very roots of the Ummah. Instead of "Mourning" most of the Muslims are
rejoicing on the brutal killings of the non-combatant innocent civilians and "The Murderers" have always been "Our Great Heroes".

Before it is too late and the Curse Of God falls upon us, we should use common sense, find out the TRUTH and must change ourselves to save Muslims from becoming the most "Hated,
Isolated, Discredited and Suspicious" people in the world. We must start working for promoting "Sectarian Harmony and Religious Tolerance" in the society and should prove to the WORLD through our deeds that Islam is not a religion of Zero Tolerance and MOHAMMED (PBUH) teaches "Love & Peace" and not Gangsterism, Terrorism, Barbarism, Extremism, Sectarianism,
Cruelty, Inhumanity and "Hatred & Killing" of the innocent civilians.

Islam is a religion of peace. Islam teaches respect and love for all even the animals. But many narrow-minded Muslims have so far failed to learn anything good from the teachings of Mohammed (PBUH) who preaches love for the peoples of all religions. We are far away from the basic principle of Islam i.e. "Enjoining the people to do Good and forbidding them from Doing Evil" and thus, possess no quality of the civilized society. Unfortunately, many of us show Zero Tolerance towards others and remember only one thing to be called as good Muslims and that is to "hate" the non-Muslims" ...act of madness?

The killing of others in the name of religion is a Sin. Can a FATHER ever teach his Children to be the permanent Enemies of each other?

The time has come for us to stop readily believing in whatever is being said, read and written by the LIARS / Hate Mongers. Unfortunately, some misguided-Muslims believe that the Holy Quran and Holy Prophet (PBUH) both have instructed Muslims that the opponents be KILLED
and that they are simply following the orders. We should use our own common sense and only believe which is logical, convincing and in the best interest of the humanity.

Why do we hate others so much, may be they are better humans then what we are. My feeling is that the Muslims should unite to discredit and deactivate the fringe mullahs (Preachers of Hate) who promise a quick trip to paradise to people who have little and sacrifice themselves with bombs strapped to their bodies. If the mullahs (THE LIARS) thought that it really was a way to paradise they would be strapping bombs to themselves! Their followers are kept too ignorant to see this for themselves and enlightened Muslims should educate them. We must promote understanding and peace. We are all watched by the same God and need to help one another, not hate and hurt.

Our contention is that the WORLD should resolve the conflicts facing the Muslim World to stop the terrorism. Unfortunately, all the disputes facing the Muslim World are our self created. The root causes of all the disputes are based on the Muslim Philosophy of Hate against the non-Muslims. The Muslim literature, teachings and preaching are spreading and injecting this hatred in hearts and minds of the Muslims. Our intolerant behavior is further proved by the root causes of all the pending conflicts that we (Muslims) cannot live side by side in peace with the non-Muslims. We must stop dividing the world into Muslim and non-Muslim blocks. All the disputes facing Muslim World can be resolved easily, only if we (the Muslims) are able to condemn the “Philosophy of Hate” created in us by our past and present elders who have divided the peoples of the world in the name of religion, cast and creed.

We need to preach love, kindness and humanity with extremist devotion and mission. The mullahs (THE LIARS) and the preachers of hatred must be excommunicated at every level. Our political leaders and religious teachers must offer positive ideas. Without the ability to imagine a better world, we cannot build anything together. What is offered today through religion is death, destruction and suffering.


Merciful God, please give to peoples of the world, the required wisdom and determination, to Forgive and Forget the bitterness of the past and learn to live in peace like brothers and sisters, by condemning the divisions and hatreds created in us by our past and present elders. (Amen)

Please acknowledge receipt. Thank you,

Peace Activist

May God extend your strenght and stamina to get the peace mission accomplished in no time.

Wednesday, September 07, 2005

Evolution Crossfire (5)

Bible kmows medicine (II) ...

"The Bible describes medical and sanitary practices remarkable for the time. It says you should bury your excrement [Deut. 23:13]. It requires people to wash themselves after touching a dead body [Numbers 19:11-22]. It notes that the eighth day after birth is the safest time to perform circumcisions [Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:2-3].

commented by Anon, 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here?, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., p. 204-206.


This doesn't do much to support the claim of biblical divinity, as many pre-scientific societies develop useful medical knowledge by trial and error. This isn't usually done in a deliberate fashion, but rather (ironically) in a slower, darwinian fashion that allows these practices to select for societies with traditions that are beneficial to the individuals that comprise them.

Evolution Crossfire (4)

Bible knows medicine (I) ...

"The Bible, remarkably for its time, notes that the eighth day after birth is the saftest time to perform circumcisions [Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:2-3]. When a baby is born, they have no bacteria in their intestines for the first few days. By the seventh day, the bacteria multiply and produce vitamin K. Without vitamin K and prothrombin protein (which is produced by the liver using vitamin K), the bood will not clot properly and the possibility of severe bleeding as well as infection would make circumcision dangerous in a primitive medical situation."

Commeneted by Anon, 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here?, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., p. 205-206.


1. Whether factually accurate or not, this doesn't have implications for a divine origin of the Bible. Pre-scientific societies often have useful procedural medical knowledge derived from long periods of trial and error. So this has no clear implications for divine origin of this part, let alone other parts of the Bible. Furthermore, Biblical divinity does not clearly preclude the occurrence of evolution.

I failed to find any verse contanining "vitamin K' in the Bible ...

Monday, September 05, 2005

Evolution Crossfire (3)

Animals are not religious!
(This can't be true ... Didn't they get the message from God?)

"Evolution says humans are animals, but humans are moral, esthetic, idealistic, and religious, and animals are not."

commeneted by Morris, Henry M., 1974. Scientific Creationism, Master Books, Arkansas, p. 196.


1. A bird is an animal. It can fly. Gerbils are also animals, but they cannot fly. The fact that one has characteristics that the other does not possess does not mean they are not a part of the same group.

2. Animals do have social institutions, as can be witnessed in primates, canines, and others.

3. Evolution does not, in fact, say that humans are animals. Humans are animals by definition (heterotrophic, multicellular organisms lacking cell-walls). The closest thing evolution says to this is that humans are related to other species

Evolution Crossfire (2)

The Animal Kingdom ...

"Evolution teaches that people are animals. We should not be surprised when people who are taught that start behaving like animals."

commented by MacArthur, John F., Jr., The Implications of Evolution (Selected Scriptures) (http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-220.htm)


  1. 1. If humans are animals, then "behaving like animals" is circular. Anything humans do is behaving like animals by definition. Perhaps the creationists mean behave like other animals. If so, which ones? Animals have diverse behaviors analogous to most actions we would consider good or evil. Behaving like animals is a vague statement.
  2. This argument is often amended to state that Evolution teaches we are just animals. It should therefore be noted that Evolution doesn't say whether or not humans are the creations of God or if we have souls. We can simultaneously be evolved animals and the spiritual children of God. Evolution is irrelevant to that belief.
  3. Most importantly, whether or not we are animals is a descriptive statement, not a prescriptive one. Merely noting our physical forms does not place or remove any moral obligations.
  4. The moral repercussions of evolutionary theory are no decider of its relevance.
    By this same flawed reasoning, if the theory of evolution says humans are animals, the "theory" of Creationism says humans are dirt. Presumably, those who claim that evolution teaches us we should behave like animals believe that we should be as dumb as dirt.

Friday, September 02, 2005

Evolution Crossfire (1)

The Monkey Business ...

"Evolution says you are descended from a monkey. Do you want to be descended from a monkey?"

commented by Moon, Rev. Sun Myung, 1976 (7 Mar.). The central figure and the transitional period. (http://www.euro-tongil.org/1976/760307.html)

Responses ...
  1. Do you want to be descended from dirt? Since Creationists don't seem to mind being modified dirt, it's not clear why they have a problem with being modified monkeys.
  2. Science is not about what we want, it is about collecting, testing, and explaining data.

Thursday, September 01, 2005

God created man? (III)

We learned our eyes are such a lousy gadget even mollusks could knock us out flat in round one … Shame on us the most intelligent animals on earth? Not quite ...

Well, you gain some, you loose some … That is the law of the nature.

All worldly subjects tend to and will eventually reach the equilibrium at some point” (Equalia 1.00.000 designate)

(Pix: Renaisance artists like Michaelangelo really know how to present imagination realistically eh? I just love Adam the sexy bloke and God the fatherly figure depicted here. I'd try to do one using Miro's technique in the near future ... the comical version of Adam and God?)

We know this world is filled with loads of examples where organs and structures clearly have their roots in the opportunistic modification of a preexisting structure rather than the clean elegance of design.

In another word, EVOLUTION IS REAL, it is not a scientific speculation or a modern myth as some religious quarters argued. I therefore believe the best bet for the faithful communities is to adopt evolution instead of trying to fight against it ... you can't destroy truth, can you?

Similarly, God too is real if only He is being appropriately defined. The way God is presented to us (citizens of the information age) as per existing holy books is not exactly appropriate or perhaps even misleading (read: Not False) or should I say, it just appears too unreal to be true … Sorry for being so direct but this is a reality; I gotta say what I gotta say and some people just gotta do what they gotta do or this world will be forever be in the same old dilemma.

Unless it is all about scientific laws and mathematic equations or something of that nature, anything written millenniums ago, particularly those trying to encompass the whole spectrum of our life (even including such aspect like diet and dress code) can’t possibly be absolutely true and or 100% relevant without periodic reviews, updating or amendment.

For all you know, what is immoral two millenniums ago could very be okay today …

There is no absolute eternity in this material world
(Eternix 1.12.123 designate)

Coming back to evolution, so how does evolution fit into the story of ‘Adam and Eve’? This is one of the biggest challenges the Semitic religions, particularly the Religion of Books ie. Christianity/Islam must face in the 21st century or risk becoming irrelevant and eventually forgotten. Don't forget, books are created by man but men are creation of God, books are static but men are evolving all the times, so is the universe. (See, evolution and creationism can live with each other). We’d talk about it at length in the near future.

Remember, Darwin himself said “Properly understood, it only deepens our respect for the power and subtlety of the Creator's remarkable ways

I am comtemplating to decode The Da Vinci Code with the help of Bill Geeks soon ... Just kidding.

Should male circumcision be outlawed?
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When does human personhood begin?
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WARNING: Blind obsession with prophecy can be perilous or even fatal, reader discretion is advised! Submitted to God as His worldly Activist on a non-exclusive basis since June 15, 2005 1:00 am ET. “La Bona” is a professional name inspired by God; it means "The Righteous", “The Virtuous” or simply “The Good” in Esperanto (a neutral international language). DivineTalk® is an Open Commentary Forum dedicated to God for His Children to engage in dialogue, discourse and debate on laws, standards and values on morality, lifestyle, ethics, business and just about anything else related to their life. God enlightened to have His Words improvised and updated with the prevailing circumstances so that the divine guidance, dogma and policy will evolve with time and stay relevant to His Children in the very era they live in as the way forward. La Bona is a Truth Seeker, Myth Buster, Freedom Fighter, Cyber Activist, Liberal Animal, Good Samaritan, Messiah Wannabe and in order to serve His Children of diverse backgrounds, La Bona is motivated and aim to eventually multitask as Divine Representative, Contemporary Prophet, Celestial Executive, Deity Clairvoyant, Holy Spiritualist ...

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